Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
I have a spare... I thought
Page: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Forum Index -> Type 3 Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
MonT3
Samba Member


Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1944
Location: South Dakota
MonT3 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:11 pm    Post subject: I have a spare... I thought Reply with quote

I wanted to see if this engine I picked up a few months ago was in working order. I had rebuilt the fuel pump earlier and was getting ready to wire it. I started to staticly set the timing and so I began turning the pulley only to find that it locked up after rotating about half a revolution on the pulley.

I had spun the pulley and got movement from it when I found it but I guess I didn't move enough. So these past few days I spent removing pieces to see if I could find any damage to the motor. Lots of oil baked on the case as well as the lower part of the case.

After removing the exhaust, and a good degreasing, It looked as if the case was intact but I did notice one jug had a few busted cooling fins. The lower cooling tins had been secured on with wire. Since I wanted to fire this motor up and since I had already rebuilt the fuel pump (untested), I decided to pull pieces and clean them starting with the carbs. I pulled them apart and rebuilt them as well as the generator as it was caked in dirt. It cleaned up nicely and so those pieces were put away while I contemplated my next move. Well, that move was removing the heads to find the cause the issue. I was very surprised the bolts holding the heads on took very little strength to remove them. It was like they were on there without any torque/lbs pressure on it. Maybe that's why the area where the jugs meet the case if caked with baked on oil and dirt? Here's some pics...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I have a learning platform to do a rebuild. Just not sure where I want to go with this motor but by the looks of it my best option is to rebuild the whole thing. Never done that before and not sure where to begin to tear it down any further. The piston move freely after removing the heads. Would be nice to know what size motor, cam, crank, etc. this is.

Any feedback or suggestions are greatly appreciated.
_________________
MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Bobnotch
Samba Member


Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 18445
Location: Kimball, Mi
Bobnotch is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I had to guess, I'd say it was a 1600. You can measure the cylinders to determine the bore size. I'd probably finish taking it apart, and take a look inside. Mainly, what you want to see is IF there are any broken parts inside, and IF there's any water damage as well. Plus, if you tear it down, you can inspect the bearings for wear, along with the crank and cam for wear as well.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:

"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives."
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
W1K1
Samba Member


Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 3685
Location: Southern AB
W1K1 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Never done that before and not sure where to begin to tear it down any further.


Keep going, pull the cylinders, pistons, fan housing and then split the case.

You'll see it's not too complicated once you get going. Just bag and tag nuts/bolts/screws when you pull it apart. The procedure for tear down is in the bentley too.

You won't know what you have till it's all in pieces and then you can start measuring and checking parts to the dimensions/wear limits in the bentley.
_________________
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php

1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MonT3
Samba Member


Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1944
Location: South Dakota
MonT3 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm thinking a 1600 as well just not sure after seeing wire holding the lower tins under the jugs. I'll be sure to tag and bag it as I go. One good thing is it's not my main engine so I can still enjoy the square while I dork with this one. I'm going to do some more tearing down on it this evening. So there'll be more to follow. Thanks guys!
_________________
MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Bobnotch
Samba Member


Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 18445
Location: Kimball, Mi
Bobnotch is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

montehm wrote:
I'm thinking a 1600 as well just not sure after seeing wire holding the lower tins under the jugs. I'll be sure to tag and bag it as I go. One good thing is it's not my main engine so I can still enjoy the square while I dork with this one. I'm going to do some more tearing down on it this evening. So there'll be more to follow. Thanks guys!


The little square cooling tins were probably wired on, due to the builder not knowing how to get them to "clip in place". Rolling Eyes
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:

"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives."
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MonT3
Samba Member


Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1944
Location: South Dakota
MonT3 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've torn the engine down with the exception of the oil pump so it looks like all that remains is cracking the case open. I measured the internal diameter of the jugs to be 85mm. What's more interesting was reading up on the cases VIN stamp.
As I understand the VIN T0315620 to be:
T031 - Fastback
5 - 1965
620 - 620 engine made? Is this correct?

I'm using http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/serialnumberst3.php for reference. If this was an engine from 1965, I'd think this was a 1500 or a 1600 made late in 65? Why is 315 not on the chart for a Fastback on http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/modelstype3.php whatever reference to a 315 is for a Notch?

I'd appreciate some insight/history lesson as I'm confused? Thanks.
_________________
MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Tram
Samba Socialist


Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 21815
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
Tram is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

montehm wrote:
I've torn the engine down with the exception of the oil pump so it looks like all that remains is cracking the case open. I measured the internal diameter of the jugs to be 85mm. What's more interesting was reading up on the cases VIN stamp.
As I understand the VIN T0315620 to be:
T031 - Fastback
5 - 1965
620 - 620 engine made? Is this correct?

I'm using http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/serialnumberst3.php for reference. If this was an engine from 1965, I'd think this was a 1500 or a 1600 made late in 65? Why is 315 not on the chart for a Fastback on http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/modelstype3.php whatever reference to a 315 is for a Notch?

I'd appreciate some insight/history lesson as I'm confused? Thanks.


#1- 1965 Fastback- No such animal, just like '74 Type 3 Squarebacks.

Engine number TO315620 indicates a Type 3 1600 54hp engine built in October of 1966, e.g., 1967 model year.
_________________
Give A Pal a Hand!
www.happytrailsfarm.org

vwfye wrote:
Oh the joy of custom things...



RIPRW

"I'm very fond of long walks, especially when taken by those who annoy me."- Fred Allen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MonT3
Samba Member


Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1944
Location: South Dakota
MonT3 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tram wrote:
montehm wrote:
I've torn the engine down with the exception of the oil pump so it looks like all that remains is cracking the case open. I measured the internal diameter of the jugs to be 85mm. What's more interesting was reading up on the cases VIN stamp.
As I understand the VIN T0315620 to be:
T031 - Fastback
5 - 1965
620 - 620 engine made? Is this correct?

I'm using http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/serialnumberst3.php for reference. If this was an engine from 1965, I'd think this was a 1500 or a 1600 made late in 65? Why is 315 not on the chart for a Fastback on http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/modelstype3.php whatever reference to a 315 is for a Notch?

I'd appreciate some insight/history lesson as I'm confused? Thanks.


#1- 1965 Fastback- No such animal, just like '74 Type 3 Squarebacks.

Engine number TO315620 indicates a Type 3 1600 54hp engine built in October of 1966, e.g., 1967 model year.


Thanks Tram. How did you come up with that? Ive looked at the pages and couldn't come up with that conclusion.
_________________
MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Tram
Samba Socialist


Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 21815
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
Tram is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

montehm wrote:
Tram wrote:
montehm wrote:
I've torn the engine down with the exception of the oil pump so it looks like all that remains is cracking the case open. I measured the internal diameter of the jugs to be 85mm. What's more interesting was reading up on the cases VIN stamp.
As I understand the VIN T0315620 to be:
T031 - Fastback
5 - 1965
620 - 620 engine made? Is this correct?

I'm using http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/serialnumberst3.php for reference. If this was an engine from 1965, I'd think this was a 1500 or a 1600 made late in 65? Why is 315 not on the chart for a Fastback on http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/modelstype3.php whatever reference to a 315 is for a Notch?

I'd appreciate some insight/history lesson as I'm confused? Thanks.


#1- 1965 Fastback- No such animal, just like '74 Type 3 Squarebacks.

Engine number TO315620 indicates a Type 3 1600 54hp engine built in October of 1966, e.g., 1967 model year.


Thanks Tram. How did you come up with that? Ive looked at the pages and couldn't come up with that conclusion.


Look at the first chart you referenced, beginning August 1965. See the column for 1600 54 hp with the TO engine codes? Third printed row in. Now, go down and you'll see that engine number TO314- something was the last engine produced in September, 1966. Therefore, yours would have been built in October, as it occurs after the last engine number in September, but before the number showing for October, which is the last one produced that month. Make sense?
_________________
Give A Pal a Hand!
www.happytrailsfarm.org

vwfye wrote:
Oh the joy of custom things...



RIPRW

"I'm very fond of long walks, especially when taken by those who annoy me."- Fred Allen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MonT3
Samba Member


Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1944
Location: South Dakota
MonT3 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tram wrote:
montehm wrote:
Tram wrote:
montehm wrote:
I've torn the engine down with the exception of the oil pump so it looks like all that remains is cracking the case open. I measured the internal diameter of the jugs to be 85mm. What's more interesting was reading up on the cases VIN stamp.
As I understand the VIN T0315620 to be:
T031 - Fastback
5 - 1965
620 - 620 engine made? Is this correct?

I'm using http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/serialnumberst3.php for reference. If this was an engine from 1965, I'd think this was a 1500 or a 1600 made late in 65? Why is 315 not on the chart for a Fastback on http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/modelstype3.php whatever reference to a 315 is for a Notch?

I'd appreciate some insight/history lesson as I'm confused? Thanks.


#1- 1965 Fastback- No such animal, just like '74 Type 3 Squarebacks.

Engine number TO315620 indicates a Type 3 1600 54hp engine built in October of 1966, e.g., 1967 model year.


Thanks Tram. How did you come up with that? Ive looked at the pages and couldn't come up with that conclusion.


Look at the first chart you referenced, beginning August 1965. See the column for 1600 54 hp with the TO engine codes? Third printed row in. Now, go down and you'll see that engine number TO314- something was the last engine produced in September, 1966. Therefore, yours would have been built in October, as it occurs after the last engine number in September, but before the number showing for October, which is the last one produced that month. Make sense?


Got it. I guess my confusion came for the model link and not seeing reference. That made me go back and forth looking for something to link the two together. I began jumping between 65 and 66 using the VIN breakdown. Thanks for clearing it up for me. A 67 (VIN plate on body but they don't match) is what I pulled it from and thought it to be totally stock to me when I pulled it.
_________________
MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MonT3
Samba Member


Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1944
Location: South Dakota
MonT3 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Managed to tear down the remaining pieces and also removed the oil pump and took off the oil strain cover. Tried to work loose the case but it wasn't happening. So to play it safe, I'll get a case splitter and work the remaining pieces out. Learning alot.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The insideo of the jugs were scratched but not very bad. but each one had similar markings
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

This pump was a pain. Was really stuck to the case and had to motivate it off. I initially thought the sahft in there was stuck as the otehr worked it's way out. Only after seeing the other side did I realize it's supposed to be in place. Newb move Smile
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
KTPhil Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 26738
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
KTPhil is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

montehm wrote:
Managed to tear down the remaining pieces and also removed the oil pump and took off the oil strain cover. Tried to work loose the case but it wasn't happening. So to play it safe, I'll get a case splitter and work the remaining pieces out. Learning alot.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It didn't split because the pump body has to come off before you can split the case. In fact, the tool will fit in the hole the pump housing is in now.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MonT3
Samba Member


Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1944
Location: South Dakota
MonT3 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
montehm wrote:
Managed to tear down the remaining pieces and also removed the oil pump and took off the oil strain cover. Tried to work loose the case but it wasn't happening. So to play it safe, I'll get a case splitter and work the remaining pieces out. Learning alot.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It didn't split because the pump body has to come off before you can split the case. In fact, the tool will fit in the hole the pump housing is in now.


I had removed the pump as well as the oil strain cover before trying to crack the case open. I have a case splitter on loan so I'll be able to get this dealt with on my next day off.
_________________
MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
avesondm
Samba Member


Joined: July 12, 2010
Posts: 237
Location: west covina, ca
avesondm is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had to get two studs for the oil pump out of the case, same side, before I could get the case apart.
_________________
71 Squareback FI "TC"

Fat chicks need love too and I have more frunk space than you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MonT3
Samba Member


Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1944
Location: South Dakota
MonT3 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

avesondm wrote:
I had to get two studs for the oil pump out of the case, same side, before I could get the case apart.


Thanks for that info. Do you recall which ones?
_________________
MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
avesondm
Samba Member


Joined: July 12, 2010
Posts: 237
Location: west covina, ca
avesondm is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

montehm wrote:
avesondm wrote:
I had to get two studs for the oil pump out of the case, same side, before I could get the case apart.


Thanks for that info. Do you recall which ones?


Doesn't matter, as long as you have two off the same side the oil pump studs don't prevent the case seperation
_________________
71 Squareback FI "TC"

Fat chicks need love too and I have more frunk space than you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MonT3
Samba Member


Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1944
Location: South Dakota
MonT3 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

avesondm wrote:
montehm wrote:
avesondm wrote:
I had to get two studs for the oil pump out of the case, same side, before I could get the case apart.


Thanks for that info. Do you recall which ones?


Doesn't matter, as long as you have two off the same side the oil pump studs don't prevent the case seperation


Got it. The pump is out now. I see where you were going with it. Thanks.
_________________
MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
avesondm
Samba Member


Joined: July 12, 2010
Posts: 237
Location: west covina, ca
avesondm is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

avesondm wrote:
montehm wrote:
avesondm wrote:
I had to get two studs for the oil pump out of the case, same side, before I could get the case apart.


Thanks for that info. Do you recall which ones?


Doesn't matter, as long as you have two off the same side the oil pump studs don't prevent the case seperation


Just don't force something between the oil pump and the case to get it out. WD40, heat and time might help.
_________________
71 Squareback FI "TC"

Fat chicks need love too and I have more frunk space than you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MonT3
Samba Member


Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1944
Location: South Dakota
MonT3 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

avesondm wrote:
avesondm wrote:
montehm wrote:
avesondm wrote:
I had to get two studs for the oil pump out of the case, same side, before I could get the case apart.


Thanks for that info. Do you recall which ones?


Doesn't matter, as long as you have two off the same side the oil pump studs don't prevent the case seperation


Just don't force something between the oil pump and the case to get it out. WD40, heat and time might help.


I used some PB, a couple of love taps and a putty knife to slide in the crack once it opened up then moving it until it started coming off. I didn't want to use something larger to pry with. Do you think that putty knife would have dome something to the face?
_________________
MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Mike Fisher
Samba Member


Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 16529
Location: Eugene, OR
Mike Fisher is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The putty knife was the best/least intrusive choice I imagine. You better inspect the 2 engine faces carefully to spot any possible leaks that you could true up if necessary.
_________________
http://s169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/mr_bojangles500/
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Type 3 All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 1 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2018, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB