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xclemjustinx
Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2016
Posts: 202
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 Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:42 pm Post subject: Sanding off old paint/rust and primer it |
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I have a 1990 vanagon gl and the old owner did a crappy job on the paint and its chipping/peeling. Its not too bad but the paint looks uneven and crappy. I was thinking of sanding the whole car (work on 1 panel at a time) to get rid of the old paint and some rust spots that I want to work on. My question is, what grit sandpaper do you suggest? Should I use a power sander (orbital) or do it with a block? Once I'm done I want to touch up any areas that I might have it to bare metal with primer. What primer would you suggest?
I kind of look the primer look on cars and always have. Eventually I will get the van painted but in the meantime I want to work on the paint. |
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Wellington
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2004
Posts: 2008
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:58 am Post subject: Re: Sanding off old paint/rust and primer it |
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you better go check out the body/paint forum.
A lot more work that you may imagine.
How you going to remove the rust? rust is uneven, sanding will not remove the pitting. You got to get it all. Sandblasting will get it.
You need to treat the metal, zinc primer. Epoxy primer, filling primer, top coat.
That is just a quick basics.
You plan on using rattle cans? The rust will come right back as the paint is not sealing the metal. |
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dobryan
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Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 17171
Location: Brookeville, MD
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bobbyblack 
Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015
Posts: 4624
Location: United States, Iowa
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:55 am Post subject: Re: Sanding off old paint/rust and primer it |
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Just the 200 or so hours I've researched the peculiar Vanagon issues, regarding rust repairs, how they are built, why they rust in various locations, and then re-assessing my own rig: I agree with MANY Previous Posters - Vanagons are one of the most needy and difficult rust restorations in the line-up. Time consuming, resource consuming, and after all of the needed work, will start to decay again way too soon.
I went down again on Thursday night last week to look over all the seams, windows, etc, only to see, yet again, that each and every location that can be a long-term issue will need to be addressed in the near future. It's like some smarty pants engineer decided "hey if we use this kind of body structure, and a seam sealer between those bits, we will have another vehicle to replace every decade or so" ! Tiny rust blood lines in about 90% of my seams. a window edge or three showing the time has come. The rear of the wheel arch and the humid clime fridge rust. I love the old girl, maybe to death.
Did any of us ever catch on to in-build obsolescence? Clever car companies keep selling us new stuff, always keeping an eye on the car they hope to sell us in 12 or so years. My 2003 EV was great for the first 160,000 miles. Not a vehicle I could maintain on my own tho. The one saving grace of the Vanagon. I CAN do everything, given time, and resources to do it.
Its cool tho, seeing threads of all the great restores. Just check the dates of the posts tho. Read between the lines, notice how the ones that started like yours ended up getting done, finally, 4 or 5 years later. Its a wild ride tho, and I'm all in. I've seen a few project Vanagons in the same garages a decade later, still getting tinkered on and little bits here and there getting the love.
Good luck.
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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bluebus86
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Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:28 am Post subject: Re: Sanding off old paint/rust and primer it |
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| xclemjustinx wrote: |
I have a 1990 vanagon gl and the old owner did a crappy job on the paint and its chipping/peeling. Its not too bad but the paint looks uneven and crappy. I was thinking of sanding the whole car (work on 1 panel at a time) to get rid of the old paint and some rust spots that I want to work on. My question is, what grit sandpaper do you suggest? Should I use a power sander (orbital) or do it with a block? Once I'm done I want to touch up any areas that I might have it to bare metal with primer. What primer would you suggest?
I kind of look the primer look on cars and always have. Eventually I will get the van painted but in the meantime I want to work on the paint. |
block sanding is for final finish prep to smooth fillers, sanding primer surfacers for instance, although a block sander can remove paint, it wont be so effective on tight inside corners or curves, it is best used for shaping a flat surface. a power orbital sander would make quick work of it. course grit will cut fast, but you dont want your sheetmetal all gouged up (rust promoting, greater surface area, harder to cover) so a medium grit is better, save the course grits for frame members and such. you need to decide if this will be a full bare metal job or not. going full bare metal will take a lot of time and you must prime it with a water proof primer preferably same day it is bared, then work on spot ares of rust. that is how a body shop might tackle it, but they have workers 40 hrs a week to devote time to it and a spray both ready to go.
you might find it best to first assess the van, list all the trouble spots with body, dents, rust and prior repairs hidden under bondo (use a magnet to find bondo spots) then one by one tackle each spot before stripping the whole van down. this way you dont have exposed bare metal for long periods of time, you may still drive the vehicle during some repairs, which means you can drive it to a welder, or other speicalist if you need help. even if you tow it, it is best to transport it with paint, once your bare metal, you want to keep the van clean of even hand prints, any oils, anything, thus it is best for final bare metal to be done close to the time of final paint, not months ahead of time
Once you have repaired all the spots (start with the easy repairs first, youll gain experience for the more difficult ones that way) you can then snd her all down, or sand down to good factory primer or what ever you wish, then paint it, or send it to be final painted
if project will take months, each spot repair should at least be given a good rattle can paint job as a temporary rust prevetative while rest of repairs are happening, the rattle can paint will be removed with light sanding prior to the real primer coats. This especially important if working in humid areas, outside. as others have said, rattle can paint is not a good primer, dont trust it for long or extremly wet conditions, dont leave it under a qulity top coat as it can ruin the top coats, may not even show up as damage until weeks after the top coat is sprayed! then the top coat checks, cracks, crazes. the rattle can is for temporary protection while you work on other areas.
anyway thats how Id tackle it, Assess all the damage, do the spot repirs, starting with the easy ones, after it is all repaired, then sand and prep for paint, protect bre areas as you go as needed, and dont depend on rattle can paint for under the top coat.
also read, ask, read, ask before each move as a once new time body guy I know this, lots of things to learn, lots of new guy mistakes to avoid. body work mistakes can be very costly to correct, so research it all well.
good luck          
ps you can in five minutes remove enough paint that it would take two or more days to repaint, resist the urge to strip it all down now, just put that out of you head, do the spot repairs first, one at a time If you prime it first, then do body work all the prestine primer month later is covered in hand prints, oil spray from air tools, grinder grits, will have nicks and scratches and will need to be redone prior to top coats the top coat wants a nice clean oil free spotless primer to stick too, how do intend to maintain that level of cleanliness over months of body work? Doing the final strip at the end of body work for this reason.
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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xclemjustinx
Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2016
Posts: 202
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:17 pm Post subject: Re: Sanding off old paint/rust and primer it |
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| I appreciate ALL the info you guys have given me! Thanks so much. There are only a couple rust spots (that i can see) and I don't plan on sanding the whole van down to bare metal. I plan on sanding some of the cheap paint off. Like a light sand. Nothing to heavy. If there are areas with rust that need to be addressed then I will use the epoxy primer for now. Once I decide to paint it, I will sand all the old paint off to bare metal and go from there. |
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bobbyblack
Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015
Posts: 4624
Location: United States, Iowa
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:32 pm Post subject: Re: Sanding off old paint/rust and primer it |
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Well, I hope it all goes well. The whole thing with Vanagon rust is how you will see rust on the outside, but the rust is usually coming through from inside. The seams were sealed at build time with a material that fails over time. Moisture gets behind the cracked seam sealer, and you get decay you don't see until it gets quite obvious. In the case where you have a previous repair, you are really in for a deeper look. If there was a paint job that involved a rust repair, you may be facing quite a shock when you get the cover-up paint and bondo off... These rigs keep secrets. Try popping off the interior panels where you can, and take a peek. Poke your head down into the engine compartment and look behind the rear wheel well. Look inside any place where you see a seam line on the outside. I wish you the best of luck, but I am sorry to relay that most rust travels outward. It is fairly common in many car makes and models, actually.
Don't let it get you down tho, its a labor of love.
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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