ss brake hoses

[pushkick]

do the ss brake hoses really do any good? are they just braided ss on the outside of the rubber hoses or are they ss hoses with rubber on inside and outside. are the nipples or ends ss.?
do the rubber hoses have some polyester(kevlar) layered with rubber?
what is the pressure rating of the ss brake hoses? anyone have experience with the ss brake hoses? any help is appreciated.
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1990 vw automatic camper

[Wildthings]

A search should turn up all you ever wanted to know.

[moosewilis]

I just ordered new ss lines all around due to my factory 87 lines are not in the best shape. As far as performance, I don't expect much, but I or anyone else should never have to change those lines ever again.

[owokie]

Bob Hoover had an opinion: "Use standard replacement brake hoses rather than those kewl after-market jobbies. The standard hose is good
for twenty years service. With the after-market stuff, dirt gets into the exposed metal braid and normal flexing is enough to wear them out in a surprisingly short period of time."

I like and trust most everything he wrote, except when he tried to talk me out of buying a bug when I was 14.

[pushkick]

i searched and there are a lot of opinions from experience to theoretical. i was looking at the bently and i think it was saying that the pressure in the brake lines is around 1450 psi(for front) (800-950 rear). do not most hydraulic lines have a metal core with lamination linings with an inner material and a rubber outer coating ? so what good does a ss outer material benifit except abrasion or rodent gnawing? i am assuming that the ss hoses are just an external ss braided covering and the internal core is not ss. i also wonder if the fittings on the ss hoses are ss. my existing hoses are 10 + years old and have show no signs of leaking or bulging. i have not checked for cracks but since i am rebuilding the rear brakes i will have to check them now and probably will have to replace. the bently suggest that there is a rebuild kit for the rear cyclinders and master cylinder. where would one purchase these if they are still available.
_________________
i see said the blind man to his deaf dog
i am going to quit smoking and drinking and die a healthy man. gotta laugh
there is no deed to the planet earth
1990 vw automatic camper

[Gizmoman]

In my opinion, the SS lines are simply hype.
The stock hoses have a steel braid lining (its small but it is still hydraulic hose).
Whether the steel braid is stainless, I'm not sure, but as has been said, the stock ones will last 20+ years.
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82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9 TD, HE200 Holset, WAIC, 27.75 dia tires, Electric power steering, 5-speed AAP w/.078 5th
Oversize spare carrier - stock location (no longer for sale).

[Merian]

the SS braid covered lines are protected from impact (if they don't come apart from poor QC & manufacturing)

if used they should be changed after each race or rally

they cannot be inspected for safety like rubber hoses can (many knuckleheads do not inspect their brakes anway, rendering this a somewhat moot point)

BA reported soft pedal feel with hoses larger than -3
- some thin wall Teflon was sold and this caused ballooning of the hose giving a soft pedal feel and risking bursting and brake failure
- stretching or crimping of the hose (e.g. by having hose the wrong size or in the wrong location for the wheel movement) could cause sudden brake failure


Excellence, Oct. 1994, p. 48-52
steel brake hoses become stiff over time and may spontaneously loosen from the caliper or metal line
“quite a few have failed over the years” while only a single rubber hose was known to fail – from a former tech writer turned sports car expert

Steel hoses are fine for a pro race car, where the car is completely disassembled between races

Feel & Performance on Real World Roads:
the rubber OEM brake hose give a better feel than the Teflon/stainless
steel braid type hoses on imperfect road surfaces, or when the tires
and rotors are not perfect – even almost undetectable imperfections
can have an effect at the limit of braking.
- slightly paraphrased from an engineer involved in racing sports cars




more in my sig.


I would not use them on any street car and would look for TUV approved ones if on a rally (DOT Approval is essentially meaningless)

The failure rate has been high based on what I would term "clinical experience" (i.e. better than anecdotal reports).
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[hans j]

I've seen more rubber hoses burst than stainless hoses, even uncovered ss that supposedly get dirt and grit under the cover and wear the teflon lining. Take a look under nearly any Audi from early 2000's and you'll see the rubber covers cracked on the stock brake hoses. I've actually never seen a ss hose fail in the 17 years that I've been working on cars. And I've installed a lot of them working in shops that cater to customers that buy that stuff.

I do ss lines when ever I replace my brake hoses. I get vinyl covered DOT hoses custom made at a local shop cheaper than I can get them anywhere else. I can even choose the color I want the vinyl to be.
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1986 Canadian Syncro Westy TDI - 1989 Syncro Single Cab - 2001 Audi S4 - 1981 VW Caddy ABA - 1980 VW Caddy EV - 1973 VW T-181

[Wildthings]

I had a 30+ year old rubber brake hose fail one time. It was nice enough to fail once I have come to a complete stop. I was actually on my way to pick up replacement hoses at the time.

I have a feeling that SS hose advocates tend to compare new SS hoses to ancient rubber hoses. The question for me is which hose is the better one once it has seen 100,000 applications of the brakes and has seen normal use edging on abusive for at least 15 years.

[bluebus86]

been running stainless braided teflon hose for near 20 or so years on one of my cars, no problems with them. the pedels is firmer than new stock hoses as it ballons less than stock when under pressure. the teflon should never swell up internally as is case woth some stock hoses.

some stainlees braid teflon hose is DOT approved, some not, for street use.

id use it again, happy customer. (in fact I did on another car)
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[Abscate]

Totally overhyped but an excellent way to relieve fewls from their money to be kewl.
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[Team WorldTour]

Like others here, I too run vinyl wrapped ss lines on my POV's.
Been doing it as long as I've been working on cars (20+ years).
Never had a problem with them.
Granted, there are cheaply made parts, and those are most of the bad press, I imagine...
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[djkeev]

I've never had a brake hose burst..... ever.

I've had them decay internally and clog up like an old man's artery, I've had them severely cracked and ancient looking ..... but never burst.

Of course I do routinely look at such things and proactively replace items that I suspect are at the end of their service life too.......


I'm not saying that they are a bad item, but they do fall into my personal category of "unneeded chrome".


Dave
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[bluebus86]

[Wildthings]

[bluebus86]

from what I understand dot 4 fluid has a higher boiling point than dot3 fluid, but dot 4 fluid has a greater affinity for water than dot3 fluid, so dot 4 fluid will suffer from a lower boiling point when saturated with water than dot3 would under the same humidity conditions. thus dot 4 needs more frequent flushing to remain dry (and hence maintain higher boiling point than dot3.) but dry out of the can, dot 4 has high boiling point.

niether fluid appears to adversly effect the teflon, stainless braided hoses, swelling has not been a problem with teflon, it is very inert to the brake fluid.
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022

[Merian]

I agree with 10-15 years for replacement. Squeeze them every year to check while you do other critical inspections of brakes, tires & suspension.

if you are racing your Vanagon ( ) then use what other races use, SRF brake fluid is a typical one
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[Ahwahnee]

Most of my cars are more than 50 years old and some have S/S lines. Those have a firmer pedal which I like but even the softer feel of the rubber lines is acceptable to me.

It is harder to inspect the braided line. It may also not be practical to clamp it shut with my usual brake hose pliers - a move that has gotten me home on occasion.

I have never had any brake 'burst' but I have had rubber lines develop an oozing leak, particularly if they are subject to frequent flexing.

[hans j]

Even rubber hoses aren't supposed to be clamped!
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1986 Canadian Syncro Westy TDI - 1989 Syncro Single Cab - 2001 Audi S4 - 1981 VW Caddy ABA - 1980 VW Caddy EV - 1973 VW T-181

[djkeev]