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Douglas Denlinger
Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: 1382
Location: Arizona's version of the east coast
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 Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2024 11:16 pm Post subject: Re: 4-year search is OVER! |
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[quote="DadAdventure"][quote="Lind"]
| DadAdventure wrote: |
| Lind wrote: |
Awesome find. Great looking original bus.
I would recommend zymol wax. It is expensive, but it is the best out there. You need to clean and detail the paint first of course. This bus can really shine. |
Lind, thank you for the suggestion on the Zymol wax. I will order the zymol cleaner and wax.
I have uploaded photos which show more of the dents and rust no the roof and have begun searching paint restoration threads so that I can understand "spot" treatment of the rust areas and what painting in those areas would involve.
Also - I appreciate the comments that the bus was a decently priced. Even with several years of looking prices are ALL OVER THE BOARD and being unable to see aa bus for sale in person left me more or less guessing on what would be a decent deal, not that a decent deal really exists for these seemingly mythic creatures.
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The photos I saw on FB still had the cover wrapped around it, now I see why.
My usual tactic to get anything I want is to mention I can be at any location, flying or driving with in a matter of hours, so more than likely, I was the person coming from Phoenix.....although he never responded.
_________________
Transporter Restorations
Upholstery Haus
Active 23 Window Samba Collector/Restorer,since 1986 |
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Mr. OGPaint
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2010
Posts: 823
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2024 11:19 pm Post subject: Re: 4-year search is OVER! |
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I just want to congratulate you on a beautiful bus, and thank you for choosing preservation....future you will very much appreciate that decision.
_________________
https://instagram.com/mr.ogpaint
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Patrick Hall |
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70bus 
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2004
Posts: 581
Location: P.O.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2024 11:34 pm Post subject: Re: 4-year search is OVER! |
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If you can't tell, you are the Belle of the Ball this year. There is and will be a ton of excellent advice for you. I think the majority opinion is that your bus is very special and the biggest bang for your (well-spent and all things considered cheap) buck is to restore it to stock, keeping as many original parts as possiblel
But don't let the cool kids pressure you! You want to put disks on the front, go ahead. Just make sure EVERYTHING is reversible by a simple unbolt-and-swap, and keep all the original parts labelled and in a safe place.
On those days when you contemplate the cost of rebuilding a $teering box or some such, remember that if that samba ad price is ballpark to what you paid, you avoided all the hard and expensive body work. I have some 20K in parts and labor just to make my truck structurally sound, not even pretty, and even if I dipped and painted it (more $$$) it will never be as nice - or as valuable - as what you have.
Get it on the road and enjoy.
_________________
Craig K
70 Neunsitzer
65 Pritschenwagen
"If Von Dutch was alive, he'd walk in there with a pistol and shoot these people."
-Robert Williams |
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mdege
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2018
Posts: 940
Location: Niederkruechten, Germany
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Stocknazi
Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 5150
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:35 am Post subject: Re: 4-year search is OVER! |
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Whoa, what a beauty! Definitely worth the wait.
Just to echo everyone else, don't touch the paint (and please don't slam it on earlies).
_________________
WANTED:
58 Westfalia cabinet knobs (3 needed), roof rack, and (7) privy tent poles (silver painted).
"When the people are afraid of the government, that's tyranny. But when the government is afraid of the people, that's liberty."
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."
Thomas Jefferson |
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DadAdventure
Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2020
Posts: 24
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2024 10:20 pm Post subject: Re: 4-year search is OVER! |
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| 70bus wrote: |
If you can't tell, you are the Belle of the Ball this year. There is and will be a ton of excellent advice for you. I think the majority opinion is that your bus is very special and the biggest bang for your (well-spent and all things considered cheap) buck is to restore it to stock, keeping as many original parts as possiblel
But don't let the cool kids pressure you! You want to put disks on the front, go ahead. Just make sure EVERYTHING is reversible by a simple unbolt-and-swap, and keep all the original parts labelled and in a safe place.
On those days when you contemplate the cost of rebuilding a $teering box or some such, remember that if that samba ad price is ballpark to what you paid, you avoided all the hard and expensive body work. I have some 20K in parts and labor just to make my truck structurally sound, not even pretty, and even if I dipped and painted it (more $$$) it will never be as nice - or as valuable - as what you have.
Get it on the road and enjoy. |
70bus, thanks very much for the supportive comments. A wonderful start to this journey for me for sure has simply been the friendly welcome for me and recommendations from The Samba community.
I have been a car nut since childhood with old BMWs and Toyota Land Cruisers being my thing. '74 Bavaria, '75 3.0csi, '81 FJ40 and '97 80 Series. Six years ago I reconnected with a childhood pal who was equally car crazy. His world over the decades has been vintage VWs and 911s and he spent a good year trying to convince me buy a vintage 911. Way out of my pay grade, but it did open me to the idea of vintage VWs which in turn led me to The Samba ......checking the classifieds a few times a day for a bus that could work for me. For the past few years in preparation - and hope - of finding an unmolested solid bus I have read through various threads on a number of bus topics. The depth of knowledge and experience detailed in threads here is SERIOUS! I am already grateful.
Amused that the great Brake Debate is now in my lap as well.
I keep EVERYTHING until it is worn-out, dead, or beyond repair, so nothing on this bus will be lost going forward. Several labeled boxes of car parts in the garage as I write. I have the spark plugs that the seller had pulled from the bus once it was uncovered. I'm curious if they would still fire. |
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DadAdventure
Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2020
Posts: 24
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2024 10:36 pm Post subject: Re: 4-year search is OVER! |
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| mdege wrote: |
There are a lot of places where the slop in your steering can come from- The steering box is just one of them and the most expensive one.
Start with eliminating all the other possible locations, they do also add up.
Check and replace kingpins, linkpins, center pivot, tie-rod ends, and push-rod ends. You will see it gets better with each part you replace. |
Thanks for the suggestion.
Question: So at 59k miles kingpins and linkpins are typically due to be replaced? Or is it 40+ years parked? |
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WildIdea
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2016
Posts: 928
Location: Black Hills, South Dakota
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2024 6:52 am Post subject: Re: 4-year search is OVER! |
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| DadAdventure wrote: |
| mdege wrote: |
There are a lot of places where the slop in your steering can come from- The steering box is just one of them and the most expensive one.
Start with eliminating all the other possible locations, they do also add up.
Check and replace kingpins, linkpins, center pivot, tie-rod ends, and push-rod ends. You will see it gets better with each part you replace. |
Thanks for the suggestion.
Question: So at 59k miles kingpins and linkpins are typically due to be replaced? Or is it 40+ years parked? |
Very cool bus DadAdventure. Congrats!
Bushings and wear parts may or may not have wear, depending on service record before parked, but in my experience, long term sitting can still become a problem. Over time, grease tends to dry out and become lacquer and eventually hard like a rock and with spindles and beam if driven the hardened grease will start to break up. These chunks and bits will also inhibit new fresh grease from being pumped into the joints. The seals in the steering damper can rot and fail, the boots on the tie rods can fail etc. I’ve found it pretty satisfying to disassemble a beam and clean all the old cake and road grime out of the pivots, inspect and rebush, replace out of spec parts and once regreased will operate like a dream.
_________________
1977 Sage Green Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691987
1965 SWR Walk-Through Standard
1960 211 Panel American Camper Conversion |
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71whitewesty
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2010
Posts: 1544
Location: oregon
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2024 8:38 am Post subject: Re: 4-year search is OVER! |
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What a great story and Bus!! Insane how clean it is and the fact that is was wrapped up so tight that not even a spider could get in is just amazing. Great advice given already and sounds like it found a great owner.  
_________________
71 Westy 1600 DP, all stock Bus 1
1970's Snow Trac 1600 SP (sold 12/2016)
1968 Tucker sno cat, sold 2021
1969 Tucker Sno cat 542
2017 VW Alltrac
71 tin top stock 1600 DP (project but runs)
Twin 71 White Westy, Bus 2, that I pulled from a 15 year slumber in a dry eastern WA field in 2015.
1966 Sundial Camper "Boomer" |
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Long-roofs
Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2002
Posts: 2295
Location: Millwood, Wa
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2024 9:04 am Post subject: Re: 4-year search is OVER! |
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What an excellent Bus!! As someone that loves building the perfect imperfect cars/buses or just anything, this one is almost perfect.
When it comes to the roof, I would lower my expectations. Getting those dents out will be hard without ruining paint. I would get it as good as possible without repainting whole roof, just blend in surface rust. It tells a story.
I am sick of restored cars, some are too nice, and never get used.
Edit: photo of a Bus like yours with one of the best original rear bumpers until I saw yours.
_________________
---
I have been on a treadmill drinking vodka, maybe more than once.
"No, I do not own a bleepin' leaf blower"
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Clara
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12401
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2024 10:13 am Post subject: Re: 4-year search is OVER! |
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| DadAdventure wrote: |
| mdege wrote: |
There are a lot of places where the slop in your steering can come from- The steering box is just one of them and the most expensive one.
Start with eliminating all the other possible locations, they do also add up.
Check and replace kingpins, linkpins, center pivot, tie-rod ends, and push-rod ends. You will see it gets better with each part you replace. |
Thanks for the suggestion.
Question: So at 59k miles kingpins and linkpins are typically due to be replaced? Or is it 40+ years parked? |
Turn to the “shimmies and shakes “ chapter in your Muir Idiot book
( buy one if you don’t have one)
Basically, have a friend wiggle the steering wheel while you are under the front of the bus and look at the steering components and see where the slop is.
The slop may be, and usually is, in more than one part. You may have worn kings and link pins, especially if the PO drove on ungraded back roads.
8 inches of slop is much more than usual for 59k miles.
But it is what it is. But where is the slop? Badly adjusted wheel bearing? Bad tie rod ends? Wonky Drag link ends? Swing lever bushings? All of the above? I would go look before driving it. Are wheel bearing nuts backed off?
You can, and should, with a grease gun and a Jack lift the front wheels off the ground, wipe the zeros, and lube the front end till fresh grease comes out. Have a rag handy to wipe off the old grease.
Adjust the link pins. You need a 17 mm wrench. Read your manual about how to do this.
I would replace brake cylinders, 4 rubber brake hoses, master cylinder, probably shoes, and long metal brake line. And metal brake line grommets.
Is the oil dirty? Change it. The engine will need new main and oil cooler seals. Probably push rod tube seals as well. Is the fan belt okay? Or frayed? Plan on an engine pull to change the oil seals.
An engine that has been sitting for decades should be just driven round town till the oil stays clean. Getting on the freeway and driving an hour or two is a way to need a full rebuild or throw a rod. Check oil after *every* drive until it stays clean for 1000 miles. It may be filthy after 5 miles at first.
The gas in the tank …. Does it smell like gasoline, or varnish? That old gas will kill seals and make the engine run hot. Best to drain tank and use fresh gas. It’ll need fresh fuel line as well. Do that while you have the engine out.
_________________
The Obsolete Air-Cooled Documentation Project http://oacdp.org/ |
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Lind
Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2000
Posts: 9917
Location: idaho
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2024 10:45 am Post subject: Re: 4-year search is OVER! |
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| Long-roofs wrote: |
What an excellent Bus!! As someone that loves building the perfect imperfect cars/buses or just anything, this one is almost perfect.
I am sick of restored cars, some are too nice, and never get used. |
I am of the same mindset on that. Original condition cars are more interesting, more honest and easier to own and have fun with. Cheaper too. I am always amazed how the market doesn't respect them like the antique furniture market respects original finishes.
_________________
.
Wanted:
Idaho VW license plate frames or other dealership items.
VWoA literature and early dealership or distributor literature/pictures/information
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turbo_g
Father of Samba Cookie Lover
Joined: October 30, 2002
Posts: 717
Location: Laguna Hills, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2024 1:58 pm Post subject: Re: 4-year search is OVER! |
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Lovely, just lovely.
 
_________________
Turbo_g
66 TinTop Westy SO42
63 Sub-hatch Westy SO33
SV2s Member #425
_________________
"Three out of four voices in my head say 'Go for it'." |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2024 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: 4-year search is OVER! |
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Some great advice given to identify where your steering slop, free play is coming from. If the bus received any preventative maintenance while on the road, like front end greasing, you would not think it would need kingpins at 59k miles. But, classic VW's back in the day were not known to be serviced regularly either.
Clara is on point. Have someone rock the steering wheel and identify where your free play is originating from. The steering gear has an adjustment that sometimes needs to be tightened up. But if it's really sloppy, you need to closely inspect all the front end components Clara mentioned.
My 67 bug has 150k miles on it. I had to replace the steering damper, all 4 ball joints and found 3 of the four original tie rods were perfect. I had to replace only one tie rod.
I shot a quick video of a bad tie rod on my old bus-
Link
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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DadAdventure
Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2020
Posts: 24
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 11:19 pm Post subject: Re: 4-year search is OVER! |
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| Clara wrote: |
| DadAdventure wrote: |
| mdege wrote: |
There are a lot of places where the slop in your steering can come from- The steering box is just one of them and the most expensive one.
Start with eliminating all the other possible locations, they do also add up.
Check and replace kingpins, linkpins, center pivot, tie-rod ends, and push-rod ends. You will see it gets better with each part you replace. |
Thanks for the suggestion.
Question: So at 59k miles kingpins and linkpins are typically due to be replaced? Or is it 40+ years parked? |
Turn to the “shimmies and shakes “ chapter in your Muir Idiot book
( buy one if you don’t have one)
Basically, have a friend wiggle the steering wheel while you are under the front of the bus and look at the steering components and see where the slop is.
The slop may be, and usually is, in more than one part. You may have worn kings and link pins, especially if the PO drove on ungraded back roads.
8 inches of slop is much more than usual for 59k miles.
But it is what it is. But where is the slop? Badly adjusted wheel bearing? Bad tie rod ends? Wonky Drag link ends? Swing lever bushings? All of the above? I would go look before driving it. Are wheel bearing nuts backed off?
You can, and should, with a grease gun and a Jack lift the front wheels off the ground, wipe the zeros, and lube the front end till fresh grease comes out. Have a rag handy to wipe off the old grease.
Adjust the link pins. You need a 17 mm wrench. Read your manual about how to do this.
I would replace brake cylinders, 4 rubber brake hoses, master cylinder, probably shoes, and long metal brake line. And metal brake line grommets.
Is the oil dirty? Change it. The engine will need new main and oil cooler seals. Probably push rod tube seals as well. Is the fan belt okay? Or frayed? Plan on an engine pull to change the oil seals.
An engine that has been sitting for decades should be just driven round town till the oil stays clean. Getting on the freeway and driving an hour or two is a way to need a full rebuild or throw a rod. Check oil after *every* drive until it stays clean for 1000 miles. It may be filthy after 5 miles at first.
The gas in the tank …. Does it smell like gasoline, or varnish? That old gas will kill seals and make the engine run hot. Best to drain tank and use fresh gas. It’ll need fresh fuel line as well. Do that while you have the engine out. |
Clara, Mdege, and Billl, Thank you for the suggestions on the play in the steering wheel. Two days ago I began disassembling the brakes, spindles, and tie rods, so my opportunity to test the linkage in this straightforward manner are all now on scattered on my garage floor. Hoping a visual inspection of tie rod ends, kingpins and the like will get there?
Any obvious issues with the tie rods visible in the photos?
Also - Clara, thank you for the detailed rundown on the basics of resurrecting a long-parked bus. The gas tank - whether to replace it or pull it and recondition it has been on my mind for many many weeks. Does it just make sense to buy a new fuel tank? I would prefer to replace as few parts as possible, but wondering if something as mission critical as a fuel tank falls on the side of, "when in doubt, replace."
I need some guidance on ordering new drum brake parts. In researching a thread regarding 1 ton axles I have confirmed that is what my bus is running (36mm rear axle nut and 27mm double front axle nuts). Does this mean that basically my '63 bus has "64 -'67 axles when ordering through Wolfsburg West, etc? It seems like these beauties have random spec/parts alterations from year to year. Any other parts suppliers I should consider?
A few below of disassembly:
All of the nuts and bolts so far have been easy to loosen and remove. Yes - almost all of them received a shot of PB Blast. |
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DadAdventure
Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2020
Posts: 24
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 11:33 pm Post subject: Re: 4-year search is OVER! |
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| Long-roofs wrote: |
What an excellent Bus!! As someone that loves building the perfect imperfect cars/buses or just anything, this one is almost perfect.
When it comes to the roof, I would lower my expectations. Getting those dents out will be hard without ruining paint. I would get it as good as possible without repainting whole roof, just blend in surface rust. It tells a story.
I am sick of restored cars, some are too nice, and never get used.
Edit: photo of a Bus like yours with one of the best original rear bumpers until I saw yours.
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I totally agree ono completely redone vintage automobiles. Years ago I bought a one-owner FJ62 Land Cruiser with 66k original miles and in amazing condition. After I realized I was afraid to walk near it in my cramped garage as I might knock something onto it, much less drive it around town, I decided to sell it.
Even more than driving an old car for the thrill of moving back in time while literally moving forward, I see that vintage VWs are pretty much unique unto themselves, as they make people who see them feel good, even people who have no history with them. The wake of smiles and positive feelings these old VWs generate is unmatched by any other make of automobile. Period. |
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don.ville
Samba YardMan
Joined: February 07, 2008
Posts: 2830
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 4:43 am Post subject: Re: 4-year search is OVER! |
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I say this often:
“You can’t be in a bad mood when you drive a bus.”
Someone will smile,
wave,
ask to take a pic,
follow you,
or tell you a story of their youth with a bus,
or tell you that you can put a Porsche motor right in there. (Ok, maybe you can be a little annoyed at the last two)
_________________
67 Standard 11 window How I Keep My Bus Alive
04 Jetta TDI Page (SOLD)
01 Mexican Beetle Hello Kitty Rescue (SOLD)
29 Ford Model A Rat Rod (SOLD)
2015 Audi A8L TDI Quattro
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earlywesty
Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2004
Posts: 2358
Location: In the woods, Ontario
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 5:25 am Post subject: Re: 4-year search is OVER! |
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You cannot visually inspect those parts alone, they need to be checked on the vehicle. You might be getting ahead of yourself. Slow down and do the research needed. A super worn tie rod might show itself now but not one that is borderline. King and link pins need to be greased and adjusted and then checked for play while on the bus. Did you keep track of the number and placement of each shim inner and outer before taking the spindles off? I would bet most of your steering play is in the centre/pivot pin, again harder to check once the front end is in pieces. All of these things matter. No, do not replace the gas tank. Research 63 only rear brakes, I think someone mentioned you had those. You are getting a lot of good advice here, take your time and heed it.
I am also a landcruiser guy, great vehicles. VWs are different lol. |
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70bus
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2004
Posts: 581
Location: P.O.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: 4-year search is OVER! |
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As someone who also had the front end entirely apart, I would say go ahead and redo the center pin; maybe it's fine, but if it isn't, it's a lot easier to do the job with all the other steering parts out of the way. A drift from RWK, a ream and a replacement kit from a vendor should be less than $200 - less if you take the risk on a cheap ream from Amazon. You can also cobble together a press for the bushings using stuff in the garage for free.
My pin didn't look that bad, but had a few mm of up-and-down travel due to a previous poor repair job.
Tie rod and ends are relatively cheap. Sometimes NOS ones in classifieds. I like to keep OG stuff as well, but steering and brakes are important.
A few people on here rebuild spindle/pins; some vendors as well. You might have the resources to do it yourself based on your LC hobby. I removed and regreased my torsion leaves, but on the advice of 'if they aren't broken or burned looking don't bother' I did not replace needle bearings and bushings in axle tube. More special tools for that job...
As earlywesty said, many of these things are measured when intact, so since it's apart, whether you put on new parts now or reassemble, recheck, and replace afterwards is decided by how much you enjoy the process.
_________________
Craig K
70 Neunsitzer
65 Pritschenwagen
"If Von Dutch was alive, he'd walk in there with a pistol and shoot these people."
-Robert Williams |
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DanM
Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2002
Posts: 1330
Location: Falls Church, VA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: 4-year search is OVER! |
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You'll notice a common theme with (most of) the replies here, and that is...STOP
This bus probably needed basic maintenance to get back to daily driver status before you started taking it apart. Buy the Bentley and follow instructions. Don't create more work for yourself than is necessary. Don't think new parts are better than original. And most of all don't F it up for the next owner after you decide you're done with it.
_________________
drive it. break it. fix it. repeat. |
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