Clutches - what pressure plate with what throwout bearing

[bnam]

What happens if a later style throwout bearing - that is correct for the transmission -- is mated to a flywheel which has the old style pressure plate with the centering ring attached? The release bearing should still act against the centering ring and disengage the clutch. But, will this disengagement start earlier on or is the surface of the centering ring at the same position as contact would be on ring-less set up?

Since the centering ring had some thickness - was the later release bearing thicker to take up the extra room from not having the bearing or was the additional travel adjusted out at the cable?
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1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[Pruneman99]

The centering ring on the PP will foul on the throwout bearing sleeve that's bolted to the transmission.

[ashman40]

[bnam]

I’m not sure removing the centering ring will work on this kind of OE pressure plate. Seems like it would chew up the release bearing

_________________
1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[ashman40]

Sorry, I should have started that statement as follows:
“Note: most early style PP with the centering ring (that you can buy today) can be converted…”.
I have only seen recently the diaphragm type for sale. Even rebuilt PPs are all the diaphragm type. I suppose this could be different where you live.
And for the rebuilt spring-type PPs and the NOS PPs like pictured above… I did say “most”.

Though, I do believe you can remove that centering ring and use that spring-type PP with the newer TO Bearings. Can someone who has done this chime in?

Was there a spring-type PP that did not have a removeable centering ring? I did some searching and all spring type PPs I could find have removeable centering rings, but this may just be for ease of rebuilding them?
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}

[Cusser]

[Glenn]

If you have a 71 and up transaxle with the later style throwout bearing, you'll never get the engine seated to the transaxle if you don't remove the centering ring.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי

[Pruneman99]

[bnam]

[Glenn]

[bnam]

This is the 71 OE plate. Note the differences. Functionally, the tip of the arm is the important difference. There is no cut and the tip has better bearing surface - no sharp edges. I’m sure the earlier plate (the one I posted earlier) that’s on the friend’s car will not work well with a release bearing once the centering ring was removed.
_________________
1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[Glenn]

Different design, the other is a 9 spring.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי

[Cusser]

I honestly don't remember if the pressure plate originally in my 1971 was 9-spring or not, just remember that it had three arms and no center ring. I can't remember if that pressure plate is now in my box of parts either, I just know that when I rebuilt that 1971 engine to go into my 1970 sedan in 2016-2017, that I couldn't use its pressure plate because it had no center ring. I had to buy a new PP with a center ring

And apparently I didn't save the center ring from my other 3-arm pressure plate when I had to remove its center ring when I moved the 1835cc engine from my 1970 sedan into my 1971 convertible about 2005.

Got all that? The test is tomorrow !!!
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297

[SoFlo1970BusTypeII]

After installing the early to late model throwout bearing conversion kit the throwout bearing body turns sideways when the clutch is depressed without the engine installed. I have a video of it doing this but it was too big to upload. Is this happening because the pressure plate is not there to keep it in place or is there something else going on that I should address before dropping the engine in?

[Glenn]

The TO besting is crooked, so is it on the arms correctly or are the arms bent?

_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי

[SoFlo1970BusTypeII]

It starts out perfectly square then when we depress the clutch it turns.

[SoFlo1970BusTypeII]

I was able to shorten the video to where the Gallery let me upload it but now I can’t find it in the Gallery.

[mikeonthebike]

The throwout bearing is not on the arms straight. The left side is too high and/or the right side is too low. You need to get that straightened out. See Glenn's picture.

[SoFlo1970BusTypeII]

[kreemoweet]