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MonT3
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Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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 Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the info on the pros and con of each W1K1. The good I see at this moment to using grease are the seals. Not sure what condition one of the seals is in as I didn't to take it apart. Putting oil in it will give me feedback on it where the grease may not. I'm sure if the caps had been on this unit, the inside would have been different.
Went looking for some Varsol or equivalent and none could be found. We don't have a Home Depot here but the Lowe's and Menards don't carry it. So I took a different approach to cleaning this out.
Wasn't as cold as I thought out today so I scooped out what I could with a small screwdriver. I used a heat gun to soften the gunk then sprayed a generous amount of Greased Lightning in there and let it soak while I made a trip to the car wash where $2.50 later the inside was clean and free of the gunk as it all came out. Alot of chunks of some soft and dried grease product came out off that thing. Brought the box back and put some air on it and dried it up. I'm happy with it. Just need to make a gasket now.
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MonT3
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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Today I re-assembled my steering box (have some temp caps on there at the moment) as well as my pedal assembly. Also swapped my front shocks and placed the calipers back on after using some caliper paint on them. Only thing left is the tie rods.
Sorry the pics are large. Got a new camera and need to get image sizing sorted out
That pan can't come quick enough! Still have to weld on the bolt pieces to secure the sub-frame cover to the pan.
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MonT3
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squaretobehip
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Joined: August 23, 2004
Posts: 3686
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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Looks nice!
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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I decided to attempt putting my ignition back together. Started out by looking at the outer cover which had the wiring. I take when these units are installed into the column, the wires are fed through which I get. if they have to be replaced, I think it would be hard to get it out complete, as the wires are ran through a small spot and would have some trouble backing them out as a whole or one by one. Either way, my attempt to remove the whole thing failed and here I am looking at four springs, the outer plate and inner plate/cover and a paper shield which all have the be placed back in.
Interstingly, after recovering the springs and the inner cover which came out, no other pieces came from the ignitions back end. What you see there is how it came out. I studied Mr Wolfes reference, (thanks ataraxia) http://classicvw.org/gallery2/v/ign_switch/ whish is great help but it aslo opened alot of questions I haven't found answers to yet. I never had the opportunity to meet, chat or ask questions of Mr. Wolfe but he continues to teach. Thank you Sir.
I started by removing the wires which were soldered into the square posts. Placed the iron directly on the tops of the square, waited a little and tugged on the wire until it freed itself. After all the wires were removed, I went back to each square and applied the iron to the top until I could see the solder soften, pulled the iron back and blew out the solder from the square post. Cleaned up the end cap and contacts on the reverse side, borrowed my wife's tweezers and sat down to research as much as I could on the rebuilding of an ignition. There's not much out there. 
Looking at the springs, one of them is longer than the others, I noticed the plate that was in the ignition was sitting (possibly) opposite of where it should be. I only say this because the bearing which looks to make contact with certain points below would need a little pressure to keep it in place otherwise it would move, get stuck with the grease coating and not go back in place. a spring would assist the plate that was in there looks to be backwards.
The bearing is in the lower left side of the inner portion of the tube. The brown plate looks to be spun around and not in the right spot
Spinning the plate around would offer a place for the spring to remain in place.
The paper cover has some indents where the two other springs probably sat. They coincide with the holes in the plate above
The cover plate and the paper shield cover the springs and is in place but where does that straggler spring go??!!! 
The small square-like nub slips into the slot cut-out in the tube BUT that's that only one. There isn't one on the other side.
The cover shows not sign of a missing piece Maybe it's not the correct piece for this tube. Maybe this ignition was rebuilt by someone and an added spring was tossed in? IDK...
Adding some pressure on the top with the tweezers as if should look this way. Unfortunately, it doesn't. I don't think the outer plastic cap would have anything to do with holding this in place. Any thoughts?
So close to finishing up but again, I'm not 100% sure I have this thing assembled correctly as I have no real reference on this. Should anyone have something like and exploded diagram, I would certainly appreciate having a look at it as I don't know if this would work. As mentioned earlier, the grey wires was not used and was tucked inside the tube. Mr. Wolfe's ignition he used didn't have a post for the grey wire on the end cap. Has anyone noticed the differences in the end caps?
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MonT3
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rustyfastback
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Joined: July 31, 2002
Posts: 839
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| The ignition switch should only have 3 springs 2 short & 1 long. The long one goes through the brown plastic piece (one hole goes all the way through & is not blocked) & pushes on top of the steel ball. |
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| rustyfastback wrote: |
| The ignition switch should only have 3 springs 2 short & 1 long. The long one goes through the brown plastic piece (one hole goes all the way through & is not blocked) & pushes on top of the steel ball. |
I guess I did it right then. I have the long spring on top of the bearing and it's going thru the brown plate and two smaller ones in the plates holes and are sitting what looks like place holders. I have no idea where the extra short spring came from but I guess I'll find out.
The one thing that's messed up is the end cap not seating in place to hold everything in. Have you had any experience with that?
Thanks for posting. Feel much better about putting it back together.
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ataraxia
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Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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The grey wire is used to power the side marker lights (it's a hot wire) while the car is parked. They were originally parking lights - left on while the car was parked on the street - to illuminate their location to passing vehicles. If your car doesn't have side marker lights you won't use the wire.
Most ignitions came with the grey wire but you'll occasionally find one without it. It goes to the 4th fuse from the right, if I remember correctly.
The bakelite piece (the back piece with the wires) isn't held into place very well from the factory and they usually explode when you try to remove them from the column-partially because of the tight wire routing and partially because of the hokey nature of its design.
I too wish there was an exploded diagram of the ignition column (even though I've put a few back together) because it would help explain how they work.
Looks like you're on the right track and making serious progress! |
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rustyfastback
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Joined: July 31, 2002
Posts: 839
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| MonT3 wrote: |
| The one thing that's messed up is the end cap not seating in place to hold everything in. Have you had any experience with that? |
I have rebuilt several early ignitions. Sometimes the cap feels loose. Kinda tough to get the metal bent correctly to hold the cap. I have removed the metal insert that houses the electrical part. This makes it a lot easier to get the electrical end cap tight. Looks like you are doing a good job on that switch. Maybe I will take some pictures when I rebuild my next switch. |
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MonT3
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Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:18 am Post subject: |
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I do have side marker lights but they were converted to signal lights. I like them that way and was planning on running them that way. I'll place the grey wire back on but cap it off.
I looked up the outer caps and it seems they may have small slots that may lock in place. The best pic I have of the piece I was looking for is cover (brown cover plate where the wires attach to)
I'm curious to know if these came with a nub that was on both sides to lock it in.
I'm planning on putting this back in the steering column tube and solder the wires back on this weekend.
Thanks for the good info and the kind words.
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MonT3
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:25 am Post subject: |
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IIRC, there's one notch that fits into the body of the ignition and two half moon shaped sections where the body of the ignition is pressed in over them (to hold it in place). Over time, either the notch breaks off or the bakelite wears down around the half moon area...it gets removed and explodes.
I have often wondered if VW pulled the solder and left the wires intact for the removal of the ignition switch body-seems like it'd be easier than threading the wires back through the column.
If you're looking for a cap (black) for the column housing, I have one if you need one. |
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Bobnotch
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Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22413
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| ataraxia wrote: |
IIRC, there's one notch that fits into the body of the ignition and two half moon shaped sections where the body of the ignition is pressed in over them (to hold it in place). Over time, either the notch breaks off or the bakelite wears down around the half moon area...it gets removed and explodes.
I have often wondered if VW pulled the solder and left the wires intact for the removal of the ignition switch body-seems like it'd be easier than threading the wires back through the column.
If you're looking for a cap (black) for the column housing, I have one if you need one. |
When I replaced the switch on my 64 T-34, I usd some "soft" wires (same size and color), and threaded them in while I was working on the bench. If you take your time, it'll work, as that area for the wires is pretty damn tight. I then trimmed the wires, and soldered them to the board (I was repairing the turn signal switch at the same time), along with adding the nessessary connectors to the ends. Getting everything to fit right, was a small job in itself, and you definitely have to have some patience to work on them (I spent something like 8 hours on mine). But, the pay off is great, when you don't have to have a generic ignition switch in your dash board (or hanging on a bracket from it). 
Monte, make sure you cycle the switch while using an ohm meter to verify it works, before spending any time installing it.  I only say that, as it would suck to go thru all the trouble to install it, only to have it not work. 
I didn't have (still don't) a cap for the column end (black cap), so I used the cap from a diabetes test strip bottle. It fit like it was made for it.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| ataraxia wrote: |
IIRC, there's one notch that fits into the body of the ignition and two half moon shaped sections where the body of the ignition is pressed in over them (to hold it in place). Over time, either the notch breaks off or the bakelite wears down around the half moon area...it gets removed and explodes.
I have often wondered if VW pulled the solder and left the wires intact for the removal of the ignition switch body-seems like it'd be easier than threading the wires back through the column.
If you're looking for a cap (black) for the column housing, I have one if you need one. |
When I replaced the switch on my 64 T-34, I usd some "soft" wires (same size and color), and threaded them in while I was working on the bench. If you take your time, it'll work, as that area for the wires is pretty damn tight. I then trimmed the wires, and soldered them to the board (I was repairing the turn signal switch at the same time), along with adding the nessessary connectors to the ends. Getting everything to fit right, was a small job in itself, and you definitely have to have some patience to work on them (I spent something like 8 hours on mine). But, the pay off is great, when you don't have to have a generic ignition switch in your dash board (or hanging on a bracket from it).
Monte, make sure you cycle the switch while using an ohm meter to verify it works, before spending any time installing it. I only say that, as it would suck to go thru all the trouble to install it, only to have it not work.
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The last column I put together took me about 5 hours in total-I wrapped the wires for the ignition in heat shrink tubing before inserting it into the column-made it easier to feed wires through the tiny space.
Great advice about the OHM meter...
The photo below is the ignition backing plate from my last column that's in pieces. You can see on the right that there's a section of bakelite that broke (one of the half moon sections) and at the bottom-in the blurry part-is where a tiny piece broke off. This ignition came apart as soon as I removed the cap on the column.
I was incorrect earlier-there are actually three half moon sections and one notch that hold this piece to the cylinder. The two sections that are broken on the one in the photo above are typical of what I've found in the past as well-probably the area with the most pressure. |
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Bobnotch
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Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22413
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| ataraxia wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| ataraxia wrote: |
IIRC, there's one notch that fits into the body of the ignition and two half moon shaped sections where the body of the ignition is pressed in over them (to hold it in place). Over time, either the notch breaks off or the bakelite wears down around the half moon area...it gets removed and explodes.
I have often wondered if VW pulled the solder and left the wires intact for the removal of the ignition switch body-seems like it'd be easier than threading the wires back through the column.
If you're looking for a cap (black) for the column housing, I have one if you need one. |
When I replaced the switch on my 64 T-34, I usd some "soft" wires (same size and color), and threaded them in while I was working on the bench. If you take your time, it'll work, as that area for the wires is pretty damn tight. I then trimmed the wires, and soldered them to the board (I was repairing the turn signal switch at the same time), along with adding the nessessary connectors to the ends. Getting everything to fit right, was a small job in itself, and you definitely have to have some patience to work on them (I spent something like 8 hours on mine). But, the pay off is great, when you don't have to have a generic ignition switch in your dash board (or hanging on a bracket from it).
Monte, make sure you cycle the switch while using an ohm meter to verify it works, before spending any time installing it. I only say that, as it would suck to go thru all the trouble to install it, only to have it not work.
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The last column I put together took me about 5 hours in total-I wrapped the wires for the ignition in heat shrink tubing before inserting it into the column-made it easier to feed wires through the tiny space.
Great advice about the OHM meter...
The photo below is the ignition backing plate from my last column that's in pieces. You can see on the right that there's a section of bakelite that broke (one of the half moon sections) and at the bottom-in the blurry part-is where a tiny piece broke off. This ignition came apart as soon as I removed the cap on the column.
I was incorrect earlier-there are actually three half moon sections and one notch that hold this piece to the cylinder. The two sections that are broken on the one in the photo above are typical of what I've found in the past as well-probably the area with the most pressure. |
I got lucky with the switch I got from Russ, in that it was still all together, and only the wires had been snipped. I did tighten/fold the cast metal over the bakelite end piece a little, as I knew they liked to come apart there. 
Would this be a case of where a little carefully applied JB weld might help hold things together? I know they're fragile on the end, as they seem to come apart IF you even breathe on them.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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ataraxia
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Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| This one is fairly easy to fix...I just have to bust out some JBWeld or some epoxy and shape it to fill in the missing areas. It's at the bottom of a very long list of things to do. |
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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Gents, thanks for the great info on how to tackle this. I'll inspect that piece closer and see what can be done with it and also take a look at the bending the end a little if it'll allow it. I don't want to force and possibly break it but will definitely explore it. I'm going to also take a look at my black cap. I read on an ad that once removed, the small pieces that help hold it in place wear and they don't stay in place anymore so I may get another.
Great idea on the soft wires and shrink-wrap. I'll put a meter on it when I get it back together.
Thanks again guys, appreciate it.
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MonT3
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MonT3
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Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:57 am Post subject: |
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Yesterday morning I got off work and went straight work on getting the pan ready to take to my buddies to prep the pans for paint. the day before I had welded the brackets in place for the sub-framed cover plate and a bolt to hold the battery strap in place. With bolts in place, brackets welded in, capped off open tubes at the tunnel ends. I took the pan to my buddies place were it was cleaned up again. The sealing process took place on both sides. Today, epoxy primer and let sit for Tuesday paint. Taken from my cell...
I straightened out that corner
Getting closer...
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MonT3
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Last edited by MonT3 on Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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MonT3
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Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:35 am Post subject: |
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Got the Epoxy primer on the pan today. This thing will get the raptor treatment.
I hope to have this back in my garage late Weds or Thurs
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MonT3
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Last edited by MonT3 on Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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vwfanatic67
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Joined: July 19, 2003
Posts: 427
Location: Warner Robins, GA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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looks awesome Monte. Great work. Keep it up and don't freeze.
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Bobnotch
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Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22413
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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Looking good Monte. Once it's back home, it'll go back together quickly. Then it'll be time to fix the rust on the body. 
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the comments guys. I was really stoked when the primer went on but nothing compared to this evening when the U-pol Raptor liner went on. That stuff is awesome. Have both sides done. It's drying overnight and will have it back in the garage tomorrow. I am so looking forward to the re-assembly. And yes, the body rust repair will begin shortly after. 
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