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sambabus
Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2009
Posts: 324
Location: N. Cal
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 Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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So that others can learn from my mistakes:
1. If you are building a bigger motor or will turn high rpm's, make sure to vent the extra crankcase pressure. I thought I could get away with it because of the C-channel seals on my valve covers but the oil just leaked out from behind the pulley instead.
2. Seal your case inserts if you have them and they are open to the inside of the case, like when machining is done to make room for a longer stroke crank. Do this even if the case is new and you trust the person that did the machining.
My question is how much venting is enough. I plan to vent the valve covers to the air cleaners. I also plan to pull the motor, heads, and back out the inserts to put some sealer on them, then screw them back in. I'm hoping this can be done by double nutting a case stud.
Thanks.
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1971 Westy, 2017cc 78.4 x 90.5 Tims Stage 1 plus 42x37, CB 44IDF's, 135 mains, 175 airs, F111, 50 idles, Engle 110, 30mm, 009, single QP, DD CHT 300*f, VDO oil always 180* Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=541370
1970 convertible bug, 1835cc, single 40IDF, disks.
Symptoms Solved and Fixed http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=551358 |
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easy e
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2008
Posts: 3939
Location: 1 hr north of Santa Barbara
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| Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| sambabus wrote: |
My question is how much venting is enough. I plan to vent the valve covers to the air cleaners. |
You can probably get by with a cheapie breather box. If you do, throw the foam away & put a stainless steel or copper pot scrubbie in there. The oil mist should have a place to collect & then drip down. If a piece of copper scrubbie made it's way to the engine... it's softer than stainless.
I think venting direct to carbs isn't advised. Hopefully someone will back me up on this. You might draw too much oil in.... lower octane rating... make it lean.
I understand you don't want to puke oil out of the crank seal & probably don't like the oil mist settling on your engine compartment.
I'm getting a similar engine built, running a breather box and venting to the original down draft tube spot on the right side of the pulley (right near the case). The breather box I'm going to use is the EMPI one that stands up tall at the filler neck area & will put copper scrubbie in there. I like the EMPI one more than the CB one because it has more bolts (on the left in the pic below). I think they're kinda ugly... but oh well.
I've read on here the 3/4 side gets lots of oil & only vent the 1/2 side when needed. Also crank case breathing is preferred to valve cover breathing. You already have a big hole at the alternator stand/filler neck.
You can see below where you could take the plate from under the foam and put it down lower over the main hole...add four copper scrubbie pads in the cavities. Plug the lower fitting ports and one of the top ones & then use the available top / back one to vent to atmosphere down by the pulley, to below the bus. If more breathing is needed, uncap one of the other lower plugged holes, vent the 1/2 valve cover & maybe route another hose down somewhere else or join the two hoses into a 'Y' and a bigger down tube. The area of two 3/8" circles is less than the area of one 5/8" circle. I'm getting at the point... you don't need a much bigger line to equal the size of two smaller lines. Don't forget to add a oil breather draft tube boot: http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Oil-Breather-Draft-Tube-40hp-1600cc-311-115-541-p/311-115-541.htm
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aka: Evan
Spreadsheet for Bus RPM, based on gearing & tire size (Excel format)
Searchable, click-navigable 1958 Bus Parts List
“They are about as worthless as the tits on the boars that live in the woods behind their junk yard.” -Weatherly
Last edited by easy e on Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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sambabus
Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2009
Posts: 324
Location: N. Cal
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| Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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I drove Seabear to Napa yesterday and she did great. 3500 rpm is about 58 mph on the freeway by gps. I'd rather see 3200 rpm at 67 mph or so. Head temp stayed around 320 f and oil was always 180 f. I wonder if the head temp would stay down with lower rpm and higher mph. I also wonder what oil I should use since the temp always stays at 180 now.
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1971 Westy, 2017cc 78.4 x 90.5 Tims Stage 1 plus 42x37, CB 44IDF's, 135 mains, 175 airs, F111, 50 idles, Engle 110, 30mm, 009, single QP, DD CHT 300*f, VDO oil always 180* Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=541370
1970 convertible bug, 1835cc, single 40IDF, disks.
Symptoms Solved and Fixed http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=551358 |
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WestyPop
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Joined: February 08, 2005
Posts: 1734
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:56 am Post subject: |
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[quote="easy e"]
| sambabus wrote: |
My question is how much venting is enough. I plan to vent the valve covers to the air cleaners. |
You can probably get by with a cheapie breather box. If you do, throw the foam away & put a stainless steel or copper pot scrubbie in there. The oil mist should have a place to collect & then drip down. If a piece of copper scrubbie made it's way to the engine... it's softer than stainless.
Sounds good. My CB tall breather seeps a bit around its bolts; not a big problem, but just more of a nuisance. Maybe the EMPI unit seals better. (?)
FWIW... take a magnet along when you buy those 'copper scrubbies'. Many that appear to be copper are really just copper-plated steel, not even stainless steel!
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68 Westy
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easy e
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2008
Posts: 3939
Location: 1 hr north of Santa Barbara
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| Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| WestyPop wrote: |
Maybe the EMPI unit seals better. (?)
FWIW... take a magnet along when you buy those 'copper scrubbies'. Many that appear to be copper are really just copper-plated steel, not even stainless steel! |
"Chore Boy" makes a pure copper scrubbie pad.
I was looking at the EMPI unit again... I think it could leak/seep a little from the bolt heads. The seal is at the edge & bolts are inboard = have oil on them. I think I'll just use teflon tape on the cover bolts.
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aka: Evan
Spreadsheet for Bus RPM, based on gearing & tire size (Excel format)
Searchable, click-navigable 1958 Bus Parts List
“They are about as worthless as the tits on the boars that live in the woods behind their junk yard.” -Weatherly |
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germansupplyscott
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Joined: May 22, 2004
Posts: 7269
Location: toronto
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| Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| sambabus wrote: |
| I drove Seabear to Napa yesterday and she did great. 3500 rpm is about 58 mph on the freeway by gps. I'd rather see 3200 rpm at 67 mph or so. Head temp stayed around 320 f and oil was always 180 f. I wonder if the head temp would stay down with lower rpm and higher mph. I also wonder what oil I should use since the temp always stays at 180 now. |
those temps are good!
what transaxle do you have?
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sambabus
Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2009
Posts: 324
Location: N. Cal
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| Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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Transaxle is stock 002 for 71, I'd like to put a taller ring & pinion in it.
_________________
1971 Westy, 2017cc 78.4 x 90.5 Tims Stage 1 plus 42x37, CB 44IDF's, 135 mains, 175 airs, F111, 50 idles, Engle 110, 30mm, 009, single QP, DD CHT 300*f, VDO oil always 180* Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=541370
1970 convertible bug, 1835cc, single 40IDF, disks.
Symptoms Solved and Fixed http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=551358 |
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germansupplyscott
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Joined: May 22, 2004
Posts: 7269
Location: toronto
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| Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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makes sense to use a different transaxle with that engine. we recently had a similar engine built for a '71 camper, except it's a bit bigger - 2116cc. the difference is 92mm pistons instead of 90.5. we're going with a transaxle with 4.57 R&P instead of the stock which is 5.38, and we're using a shorter 4th gear (.89 instead of .82) so 4th isn't quite so tall. some people don't enjoy a 4.57 final drive with the stock .82 4th, they find it's too tall.
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richparker
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Joined: November 24, 2011
Posts: 7578
Location: Durango, CO
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| Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| sambabus wrote: |
| I drove Seabear to Napa yesterday and she did great. 3500 rpm is about 58 mph on the freeway by gps. I'd rather see 3200 rpm at 67 mph or so. Head temp stayed around 320 f and oil was always 180 f. I wonder if the head temp would stay down with lower rpm and higher mph. I also wonder what oil I should use since the temp always stays at 180 now. |
This is interesting, I run and 002 and wonder what RPM my 2109cc is at when I'm cruising at 70 mph. It sounds great and my mpg is good. The guy who built it has no problem with me going that fast. The engine does have plenty of power left at 70 but I do get that the transaxle is limited b/c of the gearing.
I'm running 20/50w oil all year long. This time of year it rarely goes over 180* but in the summer I see temps around 220*. Again the builder says he has no problem with the higher temps and if I see 250* to shut it down. I have yet to see any temp over 230* and that was fully loaded with camp gear, bikes on the roof doing 70 in the middle of summer for a long period of time.
Thanks for the post.
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madmike
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Joined: July 11, 2005
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Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:25 am Post subject: |
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Hey Rich,what no tach??? I'm thinking about a Bigger motor for my 70 bus and I have this 5rib sitting here   but first I need to get the right tires and the do some testing
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'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
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76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
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richparker
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Joined: November 24, 2011
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Location: Durango, CO
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| madmike wrote: |
| Hey Rich,what no tach??? I'm thinking about a Bigger motor for my 70 bus and I have this 5rib sitting here but first I need to get the right tires and the do some testing |
No tach just a oil temp gauge. I know my 195s are a larger diameter then the 185s that should be on my bus and lowers the RPMs a little but not as much as if I was running 27X8.5.
I had my builder install the oil temp gauge where the clock would go in the dash. He did such a nice clean job installing it that I felt bad asking him to remove it and put a tach there. One of my pet peeves is I don't like the look of the gauges hanging under the dash, I think it's ugly and they would block my parcel shelf. I'm thinking maybe the oil gauge under the radio like sicroccocrazy did on his bay/Acura build.
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sambabus
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Joined: December 02, 2009
Posts: 324
Location: N. Cal
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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My bus reads 70 mph on the gauge when the GPS says 58. Something about the original tires being taller bias ply. Current tire size is 24.5" under load. I looked into a 27" tire but it would only change the rpm by 200.
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1971 Westy, 2017cc 78.4 x 90.5 Tims Stage 1 plus 42x37, CB 44IDF's, 135 mains, 175 airs, F111, 50 idles, Engle 110, 30mm, 009, single QP, DD CHT 300*f, VDO oil always 180* Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=541370
1970 convertible bug, 1835cc, single 40IDF, disks.
Symptoms Solved and Fixed http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=551358 |
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richparker
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Joined: November 24, 2011
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Location: Durango, CO
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| sambabus wrote: |
| My bus reads 70 mph on the gauge when the GPS says 58. Something about the original tires being taller bias ply. Current tire size is 24.5" under load. I looked into a 27" tire but it would only change the rpm by 200. |
Those are short tires, what size are you running? Are the C rated? My 195R14C Hankooks measure out to 26.3. At 70 on my speedo gps says 68. I bet a larger diameter tire will bring down your RPMs and make your speedo more accurate. Maybe randy in Manie will chime in, He seems to be the tire expert.
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sambabus
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Joined: December 02, 2009
Posts: 324
Location: N. Cal
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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205/70R14
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1971 Westy, 2017cc 78.4 x 90.5 Tims Stage 1 plus 42x37, CB 44IDF's, 135 mains, 175 airs, F111, 50 idles, Engle 110, 30mm, 009, single QP, DD CHT 300*f, VDO oil always 180* Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=541370
1970 convertible bug, 1835cc, single 40IDF, disks.
Symptoms Solved and Fixed http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=551358 |
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richparker
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Location: Durango, CO
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| sambabus wrote: |
| 205/70R14 |
I ran 205/75/R14 on my bus for a while. There is a major difference in the handling in the bus with C rated tires vs. The P rated tires you are running now. Not only the handling but I think you would be happy with the rpm drop and closer speed to your speedo. I would buy a set of 195R14 Hankook RAO8 tires, it will be a lot cheaper then a new transaxle. Our engines are similar and We have the same transaxles. I can tell you it was a major improvement in my bus when I went with the Hankooks.
I did run the P rated tires with my 2109 and my engine sounds a lot happier now.
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madmike
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Joined: July 11, 2005
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| Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:07 am Post subject: |
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Yea Rich,I hear ya on the underdash gage mounts  I mounted mine under the radio that never plays,LOL and I did install my tach in the Clocks place
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'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works" |
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Wildthings
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| Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| sambabus wrote: |
| Current tire size is 24.5" under load. |
What do you mean you tire is 24.5" under load? The load on a tire doesn't change its rolling diameter much at all. If under inflated you will get additional tread squirm with will make the tires spin a tiny bit faster at any given speed but this is corrected by running the correct air pressure for the load you are carrying.
A typical 205/70R14 has a diameter of 25.4".
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=B...;tab=Specs |
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sambabus
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Joined: December 02, 2009
Posts: 324
Location: N. Cal
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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+/- 24.5" with the tire installed, from ground to top of tire, with 32 psi. I can see 25"+ with an unmounted tire.
My ultimate goal is to stay 1 mph ahead of the long haul truckers, without turning more than 3400 rpm. Not sure what speed that is yet, maybe 67 mph?
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1971 Westy, 2017cc 78.4 x 90.5 Tims Stage 1 plus 42x37, CB 44IDF's, 135 mains, 175 airs, F111, 50 idles, Engle 110, 30mm, 009, single QP, DD CHT 300*f, VDO oil always 180* Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=541370
1970 convertible bug, 1835cc, single 40IDF, disks.
Symptoms Solved and Fixed http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=551358 |
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sambabus
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Joined: December 02, 2009
Posts: 324
Location: N. Cal
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:04 am Post subject: |
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Does anyone in the San Francisco bay area know where I can get my hands on a transmission oil seal before Monday? Its the donut shaped one behind the CV joint on a 3 rib 002 transmission.
Thanks
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1971 Westy, 2017cc 78.4 x 90.5 Tims Stage 1 plus 42x37, CB 44IDF's, 135 mains, 175 airs, F111, 50 idles, Engle 110, 30mm, 009, single QP, DD CHT 300*f, VDO oil always 180* Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=541370
1970 convertible bug, 1835cc, single 40IDF, disks.
Symptoms Solved and Fixed http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=551358 |
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VWDruid
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Location: Boca de Ratones FL
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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try Ken Jansen in Belmont (650) 622-9785
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