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70bus 
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Joined: July 15, 2004
Posts: 1326
Location: P.O.
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 Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2025 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: Karl the 1970 9-seater Deluxe Station Wagon |
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Karl has had veeery slow and somewhat unsteady progress, but a few things were accomplished. In answer to my post on the stupid question thread: yes, you can cover your early bay seats with split window upholstery. Worth it if it was free, or you are flat broke; otherwise not really worth the effort. Covers are smaller, and my hand-me-down covers were not factory shape. Required much pulling, poking of new holes, and random acts of hog ring. Some pics are of unfinished work, but end isn’t much prettier.
Note the wrap over the back is much shorter on the splitty sea covers;; doesn’t even cover the backrest mount holes.
I ‘fixed’ the foamcovered backrest top with rubber cement, some u channel, screws, and duct tape. Just sorta wedged in there, as the slots used to attach it to seat were only half there. I will probably whang a screw on each side, as it is supposed to be somewhat structural.
I had cleaned all the coir out of the pedestal area, treated the rust a bit, and sprayed some new Deltagrun in it, then replaced the ratty pedestal mats. I am not fond of how WW made them, nor of the inaccuracy of their cutting template. Still, at this point they are the nicest bits on the bus! Excuse my razor blade work on the mats. Karl is not even a rustoration; he’s a ‘get it running and less messy’ toration.
Also, on my bus, this is not a seat bumper for a pass bench seat - whatever was there was bolted on, and those bolts don’t go through the WW rubber bumper The bolts were in foamed backrest. The screws DID attach these to holes in the bulkhead, but all my other seat bumpers in the bulkhead are lozenge-shaped, not mushroom.
Since I had basically sitting on springs covered by Mexican blankets, proper upholstery with new coir and all made the space between the seat and back hard to get the pass seatbelts through. It didn’t help I forgot to take pics, and am not sure I put it all back properly for middle seat! I never have 3 people up front, so not a big deal; the 3points work fine.
Gonna try to button up cabin, and get Karl back to life by end of month. We’ll see.
_________________
Craig K
70 Neunsitzer
65 Pritschenwagen
"If Von Dutch was alive, he'd walk in there with a pistol and shoot these people." - Robert Williams
Raul the 65 singlecab
Karl the 70 nine-seater |
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NASkeet
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Joined: April 29, 2006
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Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2025 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: Karl the 1970 9-seater Deluxe Station Wagon |
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| lil-jinx wrote: |
| or a hunger problem back then : ) |
I don't think we every felt hungry in those days.
Even during the SECOND WORLD WAR, the British population never starved, although the diet could be monotonous and uninspiring at times owing to both food-rationing and non-availability of some produce. I've been told, that many Americans would regularly eat for just one meal, the equivalent of a week's meat, eggs & butter ration for a whole British family!
I notice that you hail from New Brunswick, which together with Nova Scotia, Newfoundland & Prince Edward Island (only the one-cent coin was issued in 1971), form Canada's east-coast provinces, of which I have coin specimens dating from before their incorporation into the Dominion of Canada.
https://www.bing.com/search?pglt=299&q=Prince+...mp;PC=U531
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
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70bus
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2004
Posts: 1326
Location: P.O.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2025 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: Karl the 1970 9-seater Deluxe Station Wagon |
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The 1/3 front seat recovering went well, despite the pre-67 covers and seat pads. Pics later. For now, here’s the 2/3 bench condition:
There was a bunch of eggcrate foam that I tossed before pics. No broken springs, tho the seat looks a little saggy. Mostly dirty and rusty, but looks good to me. Only wild card is this part found at top of bench, under the cover in the area that the mounting brackets attach to; has a metal U channel in it. Not in the parts manual that I can see. What is it, part #?
_________________
Craig K
70 Neunsitzer
65 Pritschenwagen
"If Von Dutch was alive, he'd walk in there with a pistol and shoot these people." - Robert Williams
Raul the 65 singlecab
Karl the 70 nine-seater |
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70bus
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2004
Posts: 1326
Location: P.O.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2025 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: Karl the 1970 9-seater Deluxe Station Wagon |
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Cleaning up the seat a bit, I found 2 broken springs in the seat, but nothing else seems to be awry.
I am leaning towards an 'if it ain't broke...' approach to the seat tilt, but if there is something worth doing let me know.
Still would like an idea of what this steel wire setup was; maybe 12 wires in parallel under the coir but I haven't seen pics of it on other stock seats.
I'll be degreasing, derusting and paintint the seat this week, and then the fun begins!
PS - before I trawl the archives again, is there a specific size spring I should look fr? 0, 00, 1, etc. The Upholstery Connection web page says
"keep in mind the top of the spring (after it is tied down), should be 3" to 4-1/2” above the railing (over 4-1/2" will be unsteady). Generally this means that half of the spring's overall height (uncompressed) will be above the railing after it's tied down."
Unsure if this applies to our seats.
_________________
Craig K
70 Neunsitzer
65 Pritschenwagen
"If Von Dutch was alive, he'd walk in there with a pistol and shoot these people." - Robert Williams
Raul the 65 singlecab
Karl the 70 nine-seater |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 3186
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2025 11:28 am Post subject: Re: Karl the 1970 9-seater Deluxe Station Wagon |
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| 70bus wrote: |
Progress…
Temp door removed and OG door reinstalled
And just in time, as the rains came back. It appears all that frustrating work was worth it, as so far I don’t see any puddles, rivulets or drop spots on the cab floor. The dark areas are from past leaking, and all the Kroil I hosed the driver seat adjuster with…
The door doesn’t shut quite right, but it didn’t before, so…. Part seals (good German ones, but thick), part misalignment. Can wait for warmer weather to fix.
Next “why am I doing this now?” Task: recovering front seats with some old brown vinyl off a 67 bus. No, it won’t be perfect, but we’ll see if it works. Can’t be worse than this
Or what lies beneath
Hopefully all this wire is from attaching the velour cover and not holding the seat together.
Under the seat pad I did find a weird grid of thin wires attached to thicker white cord - I didn’t see it in parts manuals, so I assume some sort of aftermarket gimcrackery?
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It looks like it has endured a lot of wear & tear and use & abuse over the years; which is often the case with commercial vehicles and minibuses!  Motor-caravans tend to have a much easier and cossetted life; especially in Great Britain, where they were mostly used solely for high-days and holidays, so low-mileage examples are not uncommon.
Good luck with sorting it all out!
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
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70bus
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2004
Posts: 1326
Location: P.O.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2025 10:03 pm Post subject: Re: Karl the 1970 9-seater Deluxe Station Wagon |
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Progress…
Temp door removed and OG door reinstalled
And just in time, as the rains came back. It appears all that frustrating work was worth it, as so far I don’t see any puddles, rivulets or drop spots on the cab floor. The dark areas are from past leaking, and all the Kroil I hosed the driver seat adjuster with…
The door doesn’t shut quite right, but it didn’t before, so…. Part seals (good German ones, but thick), part misalignment. Can wait for warmer weather to fix.
Next “why am I doing this now?” Task: recovering front seats with some old brown vinyl off a 67 bus. No, it won’t be perfect, but we’ll see if it works. Can’t be worse than this
Or what lies beneath
Hopefully all this wire is from attaching the velour cover and not holding the seat together.
Under the seat pad I did find a weird grid of thin wires attached to thicker white cord - I didn’t see it in parts manuals, so I assume some sort of aftermarket gimcrackery?
_________________
Craig K
70 Neunsitzer
65 Pritschenwagen
"If Von Dutch was alive, he'd walk in there with a pistol and shoot these people." - Robert Williams
Raul the 65 singlecab
Karl the 70 nine-seater |
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Abscate
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Joined: October 05, 2014
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| Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2025 4:19 am Post subject: Re: Karl the 1970 9-seater Deluxe Station Wagon |
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Oh, I’m sorry, this is abuse! You want 1A, next door….
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Shonandb
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Joined: January 12, 2019
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Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2025 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: Karl the 1970 9-seater Deluxe Station Wagon |
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| 70bus wrote: |
John Cleese voice "Well; I seemed to have strayed from my subject somewhat..."
Before we discuss post-Attlee policy decisions: I am finished with the driver door seals; I will be putting the door on today - minus the door card - and we'll see if it made a difference in cabin water when the rains come back this weekend.
"... and Alma Cogan isn't. Good night." |
New door seals make a big difference. I replaced mine last Spring and it has been noticeably warmer driving this winter.
Regarding the subject straying
.. It's more like "I'm here for an argument" or in some cases, "I'm here to start and argument"!
Link
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76 Westy with a 2.5L Subaru SOHC + Vanagon (010) Automatic Transaxle
Build & Trip Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=758760
Previous 1973 Panel Bus:
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70bus
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Posts: 1326
Location: P.O.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2025 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: Karl the 1970 9-seater Deluxe Station Wagon |
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John Cleese voice "Well; I seemed to have strayed from my subject somewhat..."
Before we discuss post-Attlee policy decisions: I am finished with the driver door seals; I will be putting the door on today - minus the door card - and we'll see if it made a difference in cabin water when the rains come back this weekend.
"... and Alma Cogan isn't. Good night."
_________________
Craig K
70 Neunsitzer
65 Pritschenwagen
"If Von Dutch was alive, he'd walk in there with a pistol and shoot these people." - Robert Williams
Raul the 65 singlecab
Karl the 70 nine-seater |
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NASkeet
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Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 3186
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2025 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: Karl the 1970 9-seater Deluxe Station Wagon |
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| wcfvw69 wrote: |
| NASkeet wrote: |
All of us were probably MUCH lighter than most Americans! |
If you look at photos of Americans in the 1970's, most were also thin compared to today. Clearly there's an obesity problem in the USA. But with that said, having been in London a couple of years ago, there's lots of overweight brits as well.  |
Sadly, it's true that many British people have been following the American trend in recent years re being overweight, obese, morbidly obese and worse. I blame it on the proliferation of American style junk food, increased portion-size and snacking, which has been infiltrating all too many countries over the past few decades. 
Great Britain was still subject to significant rationing of food and other commodities well into the 1950s, having been bankrupted by the full durations of both the FIRST & SECOND WORLD WARS (1914~1918 & 1939~1945), as well as the damage & destruction wreaked by NAZI German bombers, plus V1 flying bombs & V2 ballistic missiles, on cities, towns, villages, railways, port installations & factories. My paternal grandfather was killed in 1944 by a V2, whilst sitting outside a public house.
During December 1941 to August 1945, the continental USA sustained a total of six civilian casualties as a result of Japanese, high-altitude jet-stream, hydrogen-balloon bombing campaigns, but there was another plan in an advanced stage of implementation, to bomb San Diego with weaponised bubonic plague, which had already been successfully trialled on mainland China. Thankfully, the Japanese surrendered in time for this NOT to happen, but this could have been devastating for the whole continent, much like American Flu (misnamed Spanish Flu!) pandemic was throughout much of the World during late-1918 & 1919.
Although some of my primary & secondary school-dinners left much to be desired re palatability, those at sixth form college, my various university institutions and work-place canteens, were both tasty & wholesome; with no concessions to junk-food.
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
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calvinater
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Location: 802 The Pointless Forrest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2025 4:40 am Post subject: Re: Karl the 1970 9-seater Deluxe Station Wagon |
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Isn't that a rather small yellow bucket ?
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lil-jinx
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wcfvw69
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| Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2025 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: Karl the 1970 9-seater Deluxe Station Wagon |
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| NASkeet wrote: |
All of us were probably MUCH lighter than most Americans! |
If you look at photos of Americans in the 1970's, most were also thin compared to today. Clearly there's an obesity problem in the USA. But with that said, having been in London a couple of years ago, there's lots of overweight brits as well.
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NASkeet
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| Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2025 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: Karl the 1970 9-seater Deluxe Station Wagon |
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| NASkeet wrote: |
| 70bus wrote: |
| One assumes Devon advertising did not assert that the crew rode in extreme comfort or even safety with 4-abreast seating... |
Keep in mind that on average, British adults & children, were and possibly still are, smaller in size & weight than American adults & children. According to some recent health statistics I found a while ago, 68.8% of Americans, are reckoned to be either overweight or obese!?!  |
Here's a picture of my father, myself and my sixth-form college friend "Hank" (real name: Anthony Marcus Clive Owers, who played guitar as a leisure pursuit) | had an uncanny resemblance to "Hank" Marvin of the "Shadows" pop group), with my family's 1973 VW 1600 Type 2 Westfalia Continental motor-caravan, sometime during the period 1975 to 1979.
At that time my father (5' 8" tall bearded man on the left | born June 1929) ) and I (5' 10.5" tall, young-adult in short trousers, attending the roof rack | born January 1956) would have weighed about 10 stone (i.e. 140 pounds) and 8.5 stone (i.e. 119 pounds) respectively. I'm not sure how much "Hank" (born November 1954) weighed!
All of us were probably MUCH lighter than most Americans!
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
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Saul Koll
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| Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Karl the 1970 9-seater Deluxe Station Wagon |
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Cool!
| Quote: |
| Mine had all seats when I bough it; I wish I know where the photo of me driving 7 members of the Sun Ra Arkestra (plus a bass) around was. At least they autographed the sliding door for me, wich is still on the bus. |
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NASkeet
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2025 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: Karl the 1970 9-seater Deluxe Station Wagon |
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| 70bus wrote: |
| One assumes Devon advertising did not assert that the crew rode in extreme comfort or even safety with 4-abreast seating... |
Keep in mind that on average, British adults & children, were and possibly still are, smaller in size & weight than American adults & children. According to some recent health statistics I found a while ago, 68.8% of Americans, are reckoned to be either overweight or obese!?!
Several years ago, a certain self-proclaimed VW mechanic in Syracuse, New York, who uses the pseudonym "VWTech" confessed to weighing significantly more than 280 pounds (i.e. 20 stone or 2.5 hundredweight in British Imperial-units parlance), so even EIGHT such people would grossly overload a 1968~79 VW Type 2 Kombi, yet alone a Microbus or Deluxe Microbus, which have a reduced payload capacity of less than 1,000 kg.
Note: 1 kg = 2.2046 pounds
Note: 1 ton (i.e. long-ton) = 20 hundredweight, 1 hundredweight = 8 stone & 1 stone = 14 pounds
Here's part of the brochure for the non-1968 (1978 maybe!?!) VW Type 2 Devon 12-seater minibus:
https://www.justkampers.com/brochures/1968-devon-12-seater-bus/
https://www.justkampers.com/media/articles/pdf/1968_Devon_12_Seater_BusV1.pdf
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
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70bus
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Joined: July 15, 2004
Posts: 1326
Location: P.O.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2025 10:32 pm Post subject: Re: Karl the 1970 9-seater Deluxe Station Wagon |
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| Quote: |
| I have not seen a real 9 passenger |
Mine had all seats when I bough it; I wish I know where the photo of me driving 7 members of the Sun Ra Arkestra (plus a bass) around was. At least they autographed the sliding door for me, wich is still on the bus.
I've had two 3-seat middle seats (wiih the end that folds down), and I've given away both because I hauled big crap in the bus more often than bands or whatever. Now they are expensive, as you say, and hard to find. My last one, I drove with it lashed to the roof of a rental car from Indiana to Texas. Not an easy thing to store, sadly.
I need to find one that has grey seats with black accents, not just the black ones, so that's an added pain.
_________________
Craig K
70 Neunsitzer
65 Pritschenwagen
"If Von Dutch was alive, he'd walk in there with a pistol and shoot these people." - Robert Williams
Raul the 65 singlecab
Karl the 70 nine-seater |
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mikewire
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Joined: March 22, 2010
Posts: 835
Location: San Antonio, TX
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2025 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: Karl the 1970 9-seater Deluxe Station Wagon |
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| NASkeet wrote: |
| mikewire wrote: |
Nice!
Not very many 9-passengers around, so good to see another.
Good time to get things going again, and from the pics it doesn't seem like it would take much to get going...what are your biggest hurdles and where do you plan to start? |
When people speak of a 9-passenger bus, do they mean 9 passenger seats in addition to the driver's seat, or a total of 9 seats including the driver's seat!?!
In the UK this is critical, because the driving licence for cars and small vans (licence categories B & B1) only qualifies one to drive a minibus with a driver's seat and 1~8 passenger seats. If there were 9~16 passenger seats, one would need a large-minibus licence (licence category D1), which most people who have qualified since circa 1997 don't have. |
Here's a 9 passenger thread, all you want to know and more:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=402456
They aren't rare, but I can say I have not seen another real 9 passenger, other than my own (that wasn't a Brazilian or MX Bus) with the full front bulkhead and middle/rear benches in person. Most of the pictures I have seen are from TS Gallery. And IMHO, the non-walkthrough seat conversion kit doesn't count, since that could be applied to any Bus.
My middle bench was gone a loooonggg time ago I'm sure. Most are missing, and the seats cost $$$$$$$
_________________
-Mike
@countdowngarage
@bigskyeuro
1972 VW Kombi 9 Passenger Deluxe w/ 2.0L F.I. VWAC swap
1965 VW Beetle Deluxe Bahama Blue
Last edited by mikewire on Tue Jan 21, 2025 3:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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70bus
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2004
Posts: 1326
Location: P.O.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2025 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: Karl the 1970 9-seater Deluxe Station Wagon |
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One assumes Devon advertising did not assert that the crew rode in extreme comfort or even safety with 4-abreast seating...
_________________
Craig K
70 Neunsitzer
65 Pritschenwagen
"If Von Dutch was alive, he'd walk in there with a pistol and shoot these people." - Robert Williams
Raul the 65 singlecab
Karl the 70 nine-seater |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 3186
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2025 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: Karl the 1970 9-seater Deluxe Station Wagon |
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| 70bus wrote: |
Nine seats total - 3 across in front, middle and rear rows. One in front is (hopefully) reserved for the driver, so 1 driver and eight passengers.
There are also 8 and 7 seaters - variations with a front walkthrough, a 2-seat middle row, or both.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/71bus.php
Note the brocure big pic is an eight-seater, with a walkthrough. You could buy an accessory that made the walkthrough a seat to get 9. It also show a 2-seat middle, and a bench front. VW was pushing on its versatility for sure. |
I think Devon conversions in the UK, used to offer a 12-seater, 1968~79 VW Type 2 minibus - crewbus, but that was in the days when passing a driving test in a car with manual-transmission qualified one to drive a relatively wide range of vehicles, that encompass present-day licence categories C1, C1E, D1 & D1E, which my licence does. Passing the driving test in a car with automatic transmission (would include all modern electric vehicles) would severely limit the vehicles one was qualified to drive.
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
https://vwt2oc.co.uk |
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