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cdollar Samba Member

Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 293 Location: Pagosa Springs, CO
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Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:07 am Post subject: 63 birch green squareback build |
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Merry Christmas everyone! I Figured I'd finally start a thread for my 63 birch green squareback. I bought this beauty from Franz of KCW fame back in the spring of '08. It's a March of 63, Germany-delivered square according to the birth cert. Fairly complete, and overall pretty rust free and straight. The interior paint is still OG birch green, and you can see some of the OG BG showing through the exterior repaints.
IIRC Franz said the car was pulled from a junkyard in Grand Junction CO. Based on the lack of rust and totally sunbaked interior I'd guess it spent most of it's life here in the SW. There was some Canadian money down under the carpet and seats, so it might have spent some time up north too.
Here's some pics of it from '08 when I brought it home:
Toasty dash!
The plan is for a basically stock resto, seeing if I can take it back to OG birch green in the process. I got in on the Gizmobob S&P cloth buy so I've got that going for me when it comes to the interior, but as you can see from the pics my dash is totally shot, and I figure that's my biggest hurdle moving forward. |
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Nate M. Samba Member

Joined: August 11, 2003 Posts: 1306 Location: Anacortes, WA U.S.A.
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Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:24 am Post subject: |
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Cool car! I look forward to seeing the progression. . . _________________ Regards,
Nate M.
Squarsche build
Heavy Metal Affliction feature
For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!! |
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cdollar Samba Member

Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 293 Location: Pagosa Springs, CO
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Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:27 am Post subject: |
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I started into disassembly a couple of weeks ago. I didn't think this part of the process would take as long as it did… Lots of bagging and tagging parts, being careful not to break stuff, and tons of photos. At this point I'm keeping pretty much everything I'm taking off, even if it looks toasted. Disassembly is boring, but here's some pics:
You can see some of the tarboard insulation that was put on the pans. As best I can tell there were 2 layers of this stuff installed. In some places it preserved the pans nicely, but in others you can tell it just trapped water and helped rot things out more. And although you don't see all of it in the pics, I do have the armrests and wraparound trim for the doors.
The rear area
Yummy
Found almost zero rust after pulling the windows!
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cdollar Samba Member

Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 293 Location: Pagosa Springs, CO
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Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:36 am Post subject: |
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Here's a few more teardown pics. Found another rodent nest under the passenger foot rest panel… Just par for the course on this beast.
Some more interior panel removal and out with the dash
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MonT3 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012 Posts: 1991 Location: South Dakota
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cdollar Samba Member

Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 293 Location: Pagosa Springs, CO
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Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the replies! I'm really enjoying diving into this build!
The bulk of the rust I need to deal with is in the pans (go figure). It's kind of hard to tell in the pics, but at some point there was some body damage done to the driver side, going across the fenders and door. I guess the window winder mech was damaged somehow in the process, so they cut/bent/welded it together… Poorly (I need to take a pic of the mech and post it up). As a result the driver side front window wasn't able to close all the way, leaving at least a 1.5 inch gap at the top. I'm pretty sure this was the biggest contributing factor to the driver side pan rust. There's not much left of it in the rear bathtub section.
You can see more of the tarboard stuff remnants here… What you can't see so well is the big rusted out area below the heater channel vent area
After cleaning up the mouse nest
Battery tray
And from below
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cdollar Samba Member

Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 293 Location: Pagosa Springs, CO
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Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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Here's what the pans looked like after cutting out the nastiest of the rust and giving it some love with the wire wheel. Sorry for the pic quality here
You can't tell in the pics above but the driver side has the same forward rust that you see here, just not quite as bad
The rear portion of the pass side is mostly solid
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notchboy Samba Member

Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 22659 Location: Escondido CA
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Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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Will you be fixing the pans while the body is on or will it be a body off?
Looks like a nice solid base to start a stock resto  _________________
t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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Mike Fisher Samba Member

Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 18042 Location: Eugene, OR
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Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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That is a nice rear deck! Some 1/4 patch pans from ISP West and Master Series silver & black for the pans & chassis? _________________ https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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Bobnotch Samba Member

Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 23362 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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Mike Fisher wrote: |
That is a nice rear deck! Some 1/4 patch pans from ISP West and Master Series silver & black for the pans & chassis? |
Like Jason was asking, are you doing full pans while the body is off? Just asking, as the rust thru in various places makes just doing parts of it more work than doing the entire thing.  _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Mike Fisher Samba Member

Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 18042 Location: Eugene, OR
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Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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He doesn't mention any desire for doing a multi-year body off/show car restoration so I'm guessing NO. I'm sure he'd save at least a year buy leaving the body on it.  _________________ https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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EverettB  Administrator

Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 71496 Location: Phoenix 602
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Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: 63 birch green squareback build |
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Cool, looking forward to progress!
cdollar wrote: |
IIRC Franz said the car was pulled from a junkyard in Grand Junction CO. Based on the lack of rust and totally sunbaked interior I'd guess it spent most of it's life here in the SW. There was some Canadian money down under the carpet and seats, so it might have spent some time up north too |
It appears to be a Canadian car so probably originally from Canada.
Canadian car = yellow side markers (actually turn signals) + "1500" on back hatch instead of "Variant". _________________ How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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Tram Samba Socialist

Joined: May 02, 2003 Posts: 23034 Location: Northwest of Normal
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Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: 63 birch green squareback build |
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EverettB wrote: |
Cool, looking forward to progress!
cdollar wrote: |
IIRC Franz said the car was pulled from a junkyard in Grand Junction CO. Based on the lack of rust and totally sunbaked interior I'd guess it spent most of it's life here in the SW. There was some Canadian money down under the carpet and seats, so it might have spent some time up north too |
It appears to be a Canadian car so probably originally from Canada.
Canadian car = yellow side markers (actually turn signals) + "1500" on back hatch instead of "Variant". |
...Flat red tail lights, MPH, & sealed beams too.
We should start a sub- club. _________________ Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
Bryan67 wrote: |
Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
Those who can- do.
Those who can't? Subaru. |
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cdollar Samba Member

Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 293 Location: Pagosa Springs, CO
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Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the replies! Before I get to that, here's a bit more of what's gone on before now. These are some pics from this past Saturday. I needed to take care of some Christmas stuff and didn't want to get in too deep into the square, so I decided to play a bit with trying to strip back the oversprays to OG paint. I did the same thing a few years back with my single cab with decent results, and I'm hoping this turns out at least as well.
Here's the tools for the job... Jasco "Green Strip" paint stripper, rubber gloves, LOTS of razor blades, 0000 steel wool, and rags/water/etc. to neutralize it all.
I started with the inner door pillar on the driver side.
It appears that there was only 1 coat done here, and it started to lift off really easily. Here it is bubbling up and then some pics of taking off areas moving up the pillar
I was pretty pleased with how that was going so I went back to it later that evening, starting with the rear fender.
It looks like (at least here anyway) that the exterior got at least 2 coats of extra paint where the inner door jambs only got 1. So for this round the first coat of green strip only softened up the outer layer of paint - it didn't bubble up. So I took off the soft layers with razor blades until I got down to the bottom of the respray paint. Then that last layer of green strip would bubble up and I'd finish it off.
You can see some of the primer showing here... This isn't from over-stripping.
Moving further down I started to get into the previous body damage. The brownish body filler here is a real PITA because it starts to stain the OG paint that is softened from the green strip. Gotta move fast, and accept some imperfection.
Here you can see some of the swirls in the paint from when the body work was first done on the fender. This is why I don't get too bent out of shape when trying to expose OG paint... You never know what you'll find that's totally beyond your control.
A full Saturday evening of stripping and this is all I had to show for it...
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cdollar Samba Member

Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 293 Location: Pagosa Springs, CO
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Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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notchboy wrote: |
Will you be fixing the pans while the body is on or will it be a body off?
Looks like a nice solid base to start a stock resto  |
As of now I'm not planning to separate the body and pan. There's some centralized rot in the pans, but as best I can tell not much beyond that. No heater channel rot, and only one small outer rocker hole that was behind the long trim piece. Any rust like that (and there are a couple other spots I'll address) will get patched, but right now I'm not seeing anything that really warrants a pan-off. That said, if I run into something bad moving forward then plans could change.
I think it is a nice base, and stock is where it's at  |
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Bobnotch Samba Member

Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 23362 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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Mike Fisher wrote: |
He doesn't mention any desire for doing a multi-year body off/show car restoration so I'm guessing NO. I'm sure he'd save at least a year buy leaving the body on it.  |
Mike, he's already owned it for 5 years. And it doesn't take multi-years to do a body off. Plus, you CAN do full length pan halfs and leave the body on. Like Tram, Notchboy, and myself along with several others keep saying, if you're going to jump in, jump in with both feet. That way it's done, and you're not constantly repairing it all the time. It might cost a little more up front, but the long term results outweigh the short term gains. Continuous repairs get old real quick. I'd rather spend the extra time up front, do it right, and be done with it. That way I can enjoy it. Having actually done several restorations in the last 10 to 15 years, I feel it's the better way to go in the long run. There's nothing worse than having a really nice looking car sitting along side the road because something was cheaped out, while trying to save a buck. I've got a friend who waits until it's broke before he'll actually fix something. Then he wonders why it cost so much to repair it (when it could have been repaired cheaper before it broke). Another friends wife blew a head gasket, due to a small leak in the heater core (ran it out of coolant ), because she just kept on driving it like that trying to get home.
Now, don't get me wrong, I've patched my share of floor pans before, but that's usually in an attempt to save money, or the parts aren't available. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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cdollar Samba Member

Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 293 Location: Pagosa Springs, CO
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Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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Mike Fisher wrote: |
That is a nice rear deck! Some 1/4 patch pans from ISP West and Master Series silver & black for the pans & chassis? |
My thoughts exactly!
Only problem here is I was planning to only use the ISP parts to replace the passenger side batter try and driver side under-seat area (planning to chase pinholes and make custom patches for the other smaller holes), but I was shipped a passenger side under-seat pan piece instead of a driver side (as best I can tell). Bummer!! I just got the parts from ISP West on Monday and didn't notice and email them about the error until yesterday so I'm not expecting to hear back until after the holidays. But hopefully I'll get that worked out.
In the mean time I've already patched/filled 99% of the forward part of the driver side pan (all mig welded & ground), and next up is removing the kick panel piece for the rear seat so I can get to that section of the pan. |
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notchboy Samba Member

Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 22659 Location: Escondido CA
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Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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Hey I was just curious. I love seeing an old pan get restored.
I wouldn't waste time on the paint strip though. _________________
t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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cdollar Samba Member

Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 293 Location: Pagosa Springs, CO
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Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: 63 birch green squareback build |
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EverettB wrote: |
Cool, looking forward to progress!
cdollar wrote: |
IIRC Franz said the car was pulled from a junkyard in Grand Junction CO. Based on the lack of rust and totally sunbaked interior I'd guess it spent most of it's life here in the SW. There was some Canadian money down under the carpet and seats, so it might have spent some time up north too |
It appears to be a Canadian car so probably originally from Canada.
Canadian car = yellow side markers (actually turn signals) + "1500" on back hatch instead of "Variant". |
Here's an old pic I have of the birth cert. I need to dig it out and get a better one.
I was thinking a CA car would have more rust, but who knows? I'm sure it spent time there. |
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Bobnotch Samba Member

Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 23362 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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cdollar wrote: |
Mike Fisher wrote: |
That is a nice rear deck! Some 1/4 patch pans from ISP West and Master Series silver & black for the pans & chassis? |
My thoughts exactly!
Only problem here is I was planning to only use the ISP parts to replace the passenger side batter try and driver side under-seat area (planning to chase pinholes and make custom patches for the other smaller holes), but I was shipped a passenger side under-seat pan piece instead of a driver side (as best I can tell). Bummer!! I just got the parts from ISP West on Monday and didn't notice and email them about the error until yesterday so I'm not expecting to hear back until after the holidays. But hopefully I'll get that worked out.
In the mean time I've already patched/filled 99% of the forward part of the driver side pan (all mig welded & ground), and next up is removing the kick panel piece for the rear seat so I can get to that section of the pan. |
Hey, that's cool. Not everybody has the skills to do this kind of work. At least you've made up your mind how you're going to attack it, and have a game plan in place. That's all we can ask for. Like Jason, I like to see original pans repaired, but most of mine have always been too far gone to do that. And living in the "salt belt", you definitely want to keep all the water out, and the metal sealed as best as you can.
Are you going to strip off all of the "re-spray paint"? Or are you going to take as much of it off as you can, then fix the worst spots to blend it all together? Just curious. I think someone from California was doing that to a Square this past summer using Easy Off oven cleaner. But we never saw the end result (she quit posting). Her car went from blue, back to orange, where she got most of the resprayed paint off.  _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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